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I'm not sure what to make of it from a legal perspective, but from an automation safety perspective the difference is the "Valley of Degraded Supervision"[1].

I'm not sure what to make of it from a legal perspective, but from an automation safety perspective the difference is the "Valley of Degraded Supervision"[1]. A very simple automated system that makes a lot of mistakes will make a driver more alert than baseline, but as the automation improves drivers will quickly start to trust the system too much and lose alertness. There is a huge gulf where the system is good enough to cause loss of alertness, but where the failure rate is still far higher than the average human driver. But you're right, in that context it doesn't make much sense to apply to AP1 cars but not everybody else. It is a voluntary recall so Tesla might just be recalling everything named "Autopilot" even if a mandated recall wouldn't have. [1] http://safeautonomy.blogspot.com/2019/01/how-road-testing-self-driving-cars-gets.html http://safeautonomy.blogspot.com/2019/01/how-road-testing-se...

_ea1k 3y ago
I think so too. TBH, the Propilot system rarely got activated, because of how ineffective it was. But if they are left out of a recall like this, that would mean that we are penalizing systems for being more effective. I'm not sure how I feel about that, especially if the boundaries aren't well defined.
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  Agreed, I find it concerning that even the basic system in my recent Ford feels like its edging into degraded supervision territory under certain circumstances despite only having steering based attention monitoring. Regulators/congress should be much more proactive about defining what constitutes proper driver monitoring. I think the big issue is that the NHTSA is fundamentally a reactive organization. Automakers self-certify compliance with the regulations, then at some point later the NHTSA may investigate and take action against a specific product or manufacturer if there are enough complaints. Legally I'm not sure that they are allowed to make broad recalls even if its the logical thing to do.

_ea1k 3y ago

I think so too. TBH, the Propilot system rarely got activated, because of how ineffective it was. But if they are left out of a recall like this, that would mean that we are penalizing systems for being more effective. I'm not sure how I feel about that, especially if the boundaries aren't well defined.

enragedcacti 3y ago
Agreed, I find it concerning that even the basic system in my recent Ford feels like its edging into degraded supervision territory under certain circumstances despite only having steering based attention monitoring. Regulators/congress should be much more proactive about defining what constitutes proper driver monitoring. I think the big issue is that the NHTSA is fundamentally a reactive organization. Automakers self-certify compliance with the regulations, then at some point later the NHTSA may investigate and take action against a specific product or manufacturer if there are enough complaints. Legally I'm not sure that they are allowed to make broad recalls even if its the logical thing to do.