5 ms·

>it's not the waiter's/waitress' fault they're paid garbage To be fair, it kind of is. There are other job opportunities for people.

by brk 3y ago

maerF0x0 3y ago
It's neither the wait staff, nor the business. It's market forces. Wait staff are becoming increasingly unskilled labor (partly due to technology in restaurants, partly because wait some staff have become shitty/belligerent and people realized they don't actually care if someone calls them "honey", it's not worth $20 of tips to them...) I'll happily take my meal with a "go f yourself" it it means i get $20 off.
- moritzwarhier 3y ago
  This, I'm also trying to learn say no Especially in places where there's not even real service (e.g. having to dispose of dishes yourself etc) But at the end, it is a structural problem. If the job can't pay a minimum to live a normal life, then the business should be restructured to allow fewer but better jobs, in my view.
  - maerF0x0 3y ago
    if you're open to a suggestion you never asked for -- consider reading the book "When I say no I feel guilty" It really really helped me, personally. I hope it's a good suggestion for you too.
    - moritzwarhier 3y ago
      Thank you. Noted.
D13Fd 3y ago
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. I was a waiter. It’s absolutely a choice. There are many other jobs in a restaurant and you can choose which one you want to do. I was a cook, waiter, dishwasher, busboy, and host, all at one restaurant.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
giraffe_lady 3y ago
Can you share your vision for a world where everyone takes these opportunities and no one is a waiter? Do we not have restaurants? What about other low wage labor? Do people working for sweatshop wages in developing countries also have other opportunities they're not taking or is something else going on there?
- brk 3y ago
  You're extrapolating far too much from my post. But for starters, it would be perfectly viable for people to be waiters, and to even have tips be a component of their wage. But there needs to be the recognition that the tips still need to be earned. That can start at the more legacy value of 10-15% for simply doing a decently basic job, and ramp up from there. However today we are seeing a progression towards some of the these workers expecting >20% for absolute minimum effort. The primary alternative would be that the restaurant charges the actual price required to pay people a competitive wage, which is the basic approach in almost every other type of business.
moritzwarhier 3y ago
Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. It borders on malicious deception to me. Sure, I'm all for taking your fate in your own hands. But most people in the world work because they have to make a living, and can't freely choose their job. If they even have the luxury of a formal job with a minimum of workers rights, that enables them to maintain themselves and e.g. have health insurance.
- brk 3y ago
  >Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. Sure, except I did not say or indicate anything remotely that extreme. Many people equate being a server at an average restaurant to an unskilled minimum wage job (and it is). In that same general category you have: - Cashier - Retail worker - Telemarketer - Receptionist - Warehouse labor None of these people are forced to take food service jobs, there are other options in the same skill/pay category. To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. If a cup of coffee should be $6, instead of $4.50 plus a tip, just make the coffee $6 and pay the worker minimum wage.
  - moritzwarhier 3y ago
    > To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. I agree with you on that. "Malicious deception" was not intended as a personal attack, I understand if it sounds like that. I tried to express how far off from reality this is when looking at all kinds of work, not only waiters. I can sympathize with preferring being a waiter to e.g. unskilled factory or warehouse jobs. There are just so many break-neck types of work that destroy the health of anyone doing them... in short: my point wasn't much more than "markets aren't fair and some people have to choose between bad options"

>it's not the waiter's/waitress' fault they're paid garbage To be fair, it kind of is. There are other job opportunities for people.

by brk 3y ago

>it's not the waiter's/waitress' fault they're paid garbage To be fair, it kind of is. There are other job opportunities for people.

maerF0x0 3y ago

It's neither the wait staff, nor the business. It's market forces. Wait staff are becoming increasingly unskilled labor (partly due to technology in restaurants, partly because wait some staff have become shitty/belligerent and people realized they don't actually care if someone calls them "honey", it's not worth $20 of tips to them...) I'll happily take my meal with a "go f yourself" it it means i get $20 off.

moritzwarhier 3y ago
This, I'm also trying to learn say no Especially in places where there's not even real service (e.g. having to dispose of dishes yourself etc) But at the end, it is a structural problem. If the job can't pay a minimum to live a normal life, then the business should be restructured to allow fewer but better jobs, in my view.
- maerF0x0 3y ago
  if you're open to a suggestion you never asked for -- consider reading the book "When I say no I feel guilty" It really really helped me, personally. I hope it's a good suggestion for you too.
  - moritzwarhier 3y ago
    Thank you. Noted.

D13Fd 3y ago

I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. I was a waiter. It’s absolutely a choice. There are many other jobs in a restaurant and you can choose which one you want to do. I was a cook, waiter, dishwasher, busboy, and host, all at one restaurant.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

giraffe_lady 3y ago

Can you share your vision for a world where everyone takes these opportunities and no one is a waiter? Do we not have restaurants? What about other low wage labor? Do people working for sweatshop wages in developing countries also have other opportunities they're not taking or is something else going on there?

brk 3y ago
You're extrapolating far too much from my post. But for starters, it would be perfectly viable for people to be waiters, and to even have tips be a component of their wage. But there needs to be the recognition that the tips still need to be earned. That can start at the more legacy value of 10-15% for simply doing a decently basic job, and ramp up from there. However today we are seeing a progression towards some of the these workers expecting >20% for absolute minimum effort. The primary alternative would be that the restaurant charges the actual price required to pay people a competitive wage, which is the basic approach in almost every other type of business.

moritzwarhier 3y ago

Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. It borders on malicious deception to me. Sure, I'm all for taking your fate in your own hands. But most people in the world work because they have to make a living, and can't freely choose their job. If they even have the luxury of a formal job with a minimum of workers rights, that enables them to maintain themselves and e.g. have health insurance.

brk 3y ago
>Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. Sure, except I did not say or indicate anything remotely that extreme. Many people equate being a server at an average restaurant to an unskilled minimum wage job (and it is). In that same general category you have: - Cashier - Retail worker - Telemarketer - Receptionist - Warehouse labor None of these people are forced to take food service jobs, there are other options in the same skill/pay category. To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. If a cup of coffee should be $6, instead of $4.50 plus a tip, just make the coffee $6 and pay the worker minimum wage.
- moritzwarhier 3y ago
  > To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. I agree with you on that. "Malicious deception" was not intended as a personal attack, I understand if it sounds like that. I tried to express how far off from reality this is when looking at all kinds of work, not only waiters. I can sympathize with preferring being a waiter to e.g. unskilled factory or warehouse jobs. There are just so many break-neck types of work that destroy the health of anyone doing them... in short: my point wasn't much more than "markets aren't fair and some people have to choose between bad options"