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In addition to the constant barrage of tip requests, the percentages keep going up (tipflation). My dad taught me over a decade ago that you tip 10-15% based on

In addition to the constant barrage of tip requests, the percentages keep going up (tipflation). My dad taught me over a decade ago that you tip 10-15% based on service. A few years ago, it became 15-20%, then 18-22%, and now we're expected to tip 20-25%, and at more places than before. I'm not opposed to helping people out with tips (it's not the waiter's/waitress' fault they're paid garbage), but when companies are making record profits by jacking up prices and gimping on paying their workers more, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

gooseyman 3y ago
Tipflation is a good way to put it. The menu prices/product prices DO adjust to inflation. They aren't in perfect lockstep sure, but the restaurant/biz needs cost covered/some margin to stay in business. In theory, 15% 30 years ago is the same 15% in 2023.
brk 3y ago
>it's not the waiter's/waitress' fault they're paid garbage To be fair, it kind of is. There are other job opportunities for people.
- maerF0x0 3y ago
  It's neither the wait staff, nor the business. It's market forces. Wait staff are becoming increasingly unskilled labor (partly due to technology in restaurants, partly because wait some staff have become shitty/belligerent and people realized they don't actually care if someone calls them "honey", it's not worth $20 of tips to them...) I'll happily take my meal with a "go f yourself" it it means i get $20 off.
  - moritzwarhier 3y ago
    This, I'm also trying to learn say no Especially in places where there's not even real service (e.g. having to dispose of dishes yourself etc) But at the end, it is a structural problem. If the job can't pay a minimum to live a normal life, then the business should be restructured to allow fewer but better jobs, in my view.
    - maerF0x0 3y ago
      if you're open to a suggestion you never asked for -- consider reading the book "When I say no I feel guilty" It really really helped me, personally. I hope it's a good suggestion for you too.
      - moritzwarhier 3y ago
        Thank you. Noted.
- D13Fd 3y ago
  I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. I was a waiter. It’s absolutely a choice. There are many other jobs in a restaurant and you can choose which one you want to do. I was a cook, waiter, dishwasher, busboy, and host, all at one restaurant.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Can you share your vision for a world where everyone takes these opportunities and no one is a waiter? Do we not have restaurants? What about other low wage labor? Do people working for sweatshop wages in developing countries also have other opportunities they're not taking or is something else going on there?
  - brk 3y ago
    You're extrapolating far too much from my post. But for starters, it would be perfectly viable for people to be waiters, and to even have tips be a component of their wage. But there needs to be the recognition that the tips still need to be earned. That can start at the more legacy value of 10-15% for simply doing a decently basic job, and ramp up from there. However today we are seeing a progression towards some of the these workers expecting >20% for absolute minimum effort. The primary alternative would be that the restaurant charges the actual price required to pay people a competitive wage, which is the basic approach in almost every other type of business.
- moritzwarhier 3y ago
  Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. It borders on malicious deception to me. Sure, I'm all for taking your fate in your own hands. But most people in the world work because they have to make a living, and can't freely choose their job. If they even have the luxury of a formal job with a minimum of workers rights, that enables them to maintain themselves and e.g. have health insurance.
  - brk 3y ago
    >Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. Sure, except I did not say or indicate anything remotely that extreme. Many people equate being a server at an average restaurant to an unskilled minimum wage job (and it is). In that same general category you have: - Cashier - Retail worker - Telemarketer - Receptionist - Warehouse labor None of these people are forced to take food service jobs, there are other options in the same skill/pay category. To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. If a cup of coffee should be $6, instead of $4.50 plus a tip, just make the coffee $6 and pay the worker minimum wage.
    - moritzwarhier 3y ago
      > To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. I agree with you on that. "Malicious deception" was not intended as a personal attack, I understand if it sounds like that. I tried to express how far off from reality this is when looking at all kinds of work, not only waiters. I can sympathize with preferring being a waiter to e.g. unskilled factory or warehouse jobs. There are just so many break-neck types of work that destroy the health of anyone doing them... in short: my point wasn't much more than "markets aren't fair and some people have to choose between bad options"
cafard 3y ago
Having been paid a tipped wage, I have for half a century tipped 20%, almost invariably without regard to the service. For the first thirty years, this was thought to be on the generous side, now I guess I'm a piker. I will say that on a recent vacation to Italy, where tipping seems to be just not done--none of the credit card slips had a line for tip--I found I didn't miss it. [Edit: added missing "on" to last sentence.]

gooseyman 3y ago

Tipflation is a good way to put it. The menu prices/product prices DO adjust to inflation. They aren't in perfect lockstep sure, but the restaurant/biz needs cost covered/some margin to stay in business. In theory, 15% 30 years ago is the same 15% in 2023.

brk 3y ago

>it's not the waiter's/waitress' fault they're paid garbage To be fair, it kind of is. There are other job opportunities for people.

maerF0x0 3y ago
It's neither the wait staff, nor the business. It's market forces. Wait staff are becoming increasingly unskilled labor (partly due to technology in restaurants, partly because wait some staff have become shitty/belligerent and people realized they don't actually care if someone calls them "honey", it's not worth $20 of tips to them...) I'll happily take my meal with a "go f yourself" it it means i get $20 off.
- moritzwarhier 3y ago
  This, I'm also trying to learn say no Especially in places where there's not even real service (e.g. having to dispose of dishes yourself etc) But at the end, it is a structural problem. If the job can't pay a minimum to live a normal life, then the business should be restructured to allow fewer but better jobs, in my view.
  - maerF0x0 3y ago
    if you're open to a suggestion you never asked for -- consider reading the book "When I say no I feel guilty" It really really helped me, personally. I hope it's a good suggestion for you too.
    - moritzwarhier 3y ago
      Thank you. Noted.
D13Fd 3y ago
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. I was a waiter. It’s absolutely a choice. There are many other jobs in a restaurant and you can choose which one you want to do. I was a cook, waiter, dishwasher, busboy, and host, all at one restaurant.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
giraffe_lady 3y ago
Can you share your vision for a world where everyone takes these opportunities and no one is a waiter? Do we not have restaurants? What about other low wage labor? Do people working for sweatshop wages in developing countries also have other opportunities they're not taking or is something else going on there?
- brk 3y ago
  You're extrapolating far too much from my post. But for starters, it would be perfectly viable for people to be waiters, and to even have tips be a component of their wage. But there needs to be the recognition that the tips still need to be earned. That can start at the more legacy value of 10-15% for simply doing a decently basic job, and ramp up from there. However today we are seeing a progression towards some of the these workers expecting >20% for absolute minimum effort. The primary alternative would be that the restaurant charges the actual price required to pay people a competitive wage, which is the basic approach in almost every other type of business.
moritzwarhier 3y ago
Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. It borders on malicious deception to me. Sure, I'm all for taking your fate in your own hands. But most people in the world work because they have to make a living, and can't freely choose their job. If they even have the luxury of a formal job with a minimum of workers rights, that enables them to maintain themselves and e.g. have health insurance.
- brk 3y ago
  >Pretending that every person in the world can work whatever job they want is worse than sugar coating reality. Sure, except I did not say or indicate anything remotely that extreme. Many people equate being a server at an average restaurant to an unskilled minimum wage job (and it is). In that same general category you have: - Cashier - Retail worker - Telemarketer - Receptionist - Warehouse labor None of these people are forced to take food service jobs, there are other options in the same skill/pay category. To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. If a cup of coffee should be $6, instead of $4.50 plus a tip, just make the coffee $6 and pay the worker minimum wage.
  - moritzwarhier 3y ago
    > To me, it is far greater malicious deception that we have a category of business that is essentially allowed to advertise false pricing, where as a customer you are expected to routinely pay much more than the stated price for things. I agree with you on that. "Malicious deception" was not intended as a personal attack, I understand if it sounds like that. I tried to express how far off from reality this is when looking at all kinds of work, not only waiters. I can sympathize with preferring being a waiter to e.g. unskilled factory or warehouse jobs. There are just so many break-neck types of work that destroy the health of anyone doing them... in short: my point wasn't much more than "markets aren't fair and some people have to choose between bad options"

cafard 3y ago

Having been paid a tipped wage, I have for half a century tipped 20%, almost invariably without regard to the service. For the first thirty years, this was thought to be on the generous side, now I guess I'm a piker. I will say that on a recent vacation to Italy, where tipping seems to be just not done--none of the credit card slips had a line for tip--I found I didn't miss it. [Edit: added missing "on" to last sentence.]