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Just write zero as a protest for the dark patterns. Zero is common in many countries outside of USA by the way. In California and other states you cannot claim
by j7ake 3y ago
Just write zero as a protest for the dark patterns.
Zero is common in many countries outside of USA by the way. In California and other states you cannot claim workers are being paid below minimum wage.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- catchnear4321 3y agothat’s right, stick it to the minimum wage worker for the employer’s (or likely corporate’s) decision in payment processing platform. keep going to the businesses, of course. you still want your tendies.
- redserk 3y agoAt a certain point "take the ball and go home" becomes the rational decision if a player in the game isn't being treated fairly. In this case, tipping zero becomes the simplest option. Tips encourage artificial menu pricing, which disguises the intended price of a service. Customers are being socially pressured into tipping more than they otherwise would want to. Social pressure is not a fair mechanism in a market. Another pattern is where servers are expecting 20% tips in addition to 5-10% "Employee Healthcare/Benefits/Wage" Surcharges. Sure, health insurance is a critical need but that should be baked into the price of the food being sold. Patrons are then pressured to effectively give a total 25-30% for service, in addition to the advertised price of food. Insane. Sorry that servers are caught in the cross-fire on this but their employers decided to use them as fodder.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago"Take the ball and go home" in this case would be cancel the order and leave. Stiffing the staff is... another thing.
- redserk 3y agoWhy is "stiffing the staff" bad but surprise pricing to customers is tolerable? If the pricing practices are disclosed up front, yeah that's clearly stiffing the staff, but that's simply not the case here. I'm referring to the game where you're lured into a service with an ambiguous ruleset for pricing. The pricing rules aren't disclosed until it is time to pay. When it is time to pay, you're now given an increasingly difficult puzzle to solve in order to tip what you intend to, without manipulation. Expecting anyone to solve this puzzle is unreasonable.
- giraffe_lady 3y agoI'm not defending surprise pricing or tipping at all. But up until you pay you have the option to not pay. If this is a big concern of yours you should take that option.
- redserk 3y agoI agree that if at any point you suspect the pricing isn't fair in any transaction, it's up to you to leave. If someone checks Yelp and sees red flags on tipping but still decides to go and complain about it, they're being a jerk. But many sit-down restaurants don't give any indication about the tipping procedures until after a meal is served and consumed.
- catchnear4321 3y agoso instead of tipping zero, since that implies the ability to decide, tip something that might be less jerk and make the decision to not return, perchance? and if you aren’t given a choice, and it isn’t advertised, well, that’s a different predicament. same solution. you aren’t going to refuse to pay, so refuse to return.
- JohnFen 3y agoI don't think characterizing it as "stiffing the staff" is accurate. It's the staff's employers who are doing the stiffing.
- heavenforbid 3y agoExactly. It’s 100% up to the customer to pay the employee, **not** the employee’s employer. Why don’t people understand that?
- edmundsauto 3y agoBecause this is unique to America and (mostly) restaurant service? And because it’s ridiculous. I want to eat, not figure out how much to pay your employees. Part of a business’ job is to abstract the business-y stuff away from me so I can just enjoy a meal. Otherwise, if it’s a hassle, I’ll just cook more at home. I can cook just as well, I eat out for the experience and to not deal with hassles.
- catchnear4321 3y agof- you pay the employer, the employer pays the employee, so if you don’t tip the employee but you do pay the employer, who are you hurting more?
- Sirizarry 3y agoIn the short term, the employee. In the long term, as people leave due to lack of tip pay, service degrades and customers stop showing up due to the degrading service, the employer. Tipping as a requirement needs to go. Pay them a minimum wage because it shouldn’t be the customers problem. If a business owner cannot do that, the business should not exist.
- catchnear4321 3y agoso hurting the employee is just, as it hurts the employer eventually? almost sounds like people are forced to go to these places.
- Sirizarry 3y agoI never said it’s just. Don’t put words into other peoples mouths if you intend to argue in good faith. If you want systemic change, then that is what I believe has to happen. Please provide a better idea
- Kaibeezy 3y agoI’m uncomfortable with tipping zero, knowing how servers are paid in the US. But it also seems wrong to tie the tip to the price, when the work is comparable. I’m going to think about an alternative minimum tip, maybe something like: - $1 per item for a takeout counter - $5 per person at sit down service - $10 for an average delivery If everyone did that, a couple of things would happen: - servers would have to push for higher pay - restaurants and bars would raise their prices The advantage is this would be predictable and understandable for everyone. In Europe and elsewhere, reasonable pay is assumed, and you tip rarely for exceptional service. That’s really where things need to go.
- maerF0x0 3y agoWe're all uncomfortable, but including the wait staff. It will never change unless someone does.
- giraffe_lady 3y agoIf the only thing you can do is simply stiff the waiter unfortunate enough to be working your table today maybe the change isn't yours to make.
- maerF0x0 3y agoI 100% agree that simply not tipping, and not doing additional avenues of change (such as intentionally patronizing restaurants which are no-tip / living wage), then really the root might actually be greed/selfishness.
- safety1st 3y agoI mean, everyone knows that tipping culture in the US has become unhealthy (it probably always was). Many many people would prefer to end it. The only way tipping is going to end, is if people stop doing it. There's not going to be some higher authority who one day says "OK now it's socially acceptable and no one's going to be upset if you stop, the world will get better, no friction required." You have to stop, tell the business why you're stopping, and tell other people to stop.
- malshe 3y agoI will try inputting 0 and then pay in cash next time. I don't want to punish the servers.
- wkat4242 3y agoI usually give tips in cash anyway so that the server doesn't have to share it with their boss or declare it.
- OkayPhysicist 3y agoServers sharing tips with management is illegal in the United States at the federal level, and can and should be reported to the appropriate labor protections board. In California, that's the California Labor Commissioner's Office, every state has their own.
- hydrok9 3y agothat's fantastic. in Manitoba tips are legally the property of the store owner and they do not have to share them at all if they don't want to.
- teeray 3y agoMeanwhile, the boss still has their hand in the tip jar until a formal inquiry can get started and completed. Maybe in a year or so they’ll rule in favor of the employee and the employer will have to pay up… eventually. In the meantime, the employees still have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Even though something like that is illegal, our current system often denies justice by delaying it.