3 ms·

Seems ludicrous that they can get a warrant to take everything if he really was just hitting URLs.

deafpolygon 3y ago
Worse than that- even if you are adjacent to a crime that took place and not the suspect, they can also invade your privacy - rifle through all of your private data online and so on. I had a friend who owns a PC repair shop who bought a laptop from another 'friend' that was sold to him illegally. (He did not know it was illegally stolen from the next state over) The state police came in (with FBI in tow) and seized all of his equipment. Every last computer (all of his own, as well as customers that had their pc in for repair) in the shop was checked over. They held onto his equipment (along with 3 other customers) for 6 months, and he had to make do with a laptop to keep his business running. Fortunately, he had backed up his PC repair software to another location. Or he would have been out of business. All because the FBI wanted to be thorough. Not because he was on suspicion of a crime.
- hmottestad 3y ago
  This sounds a bit far fetched. Then again I remember a story about a tire storage facility in Norway that went bankrupt and no one could get their winter tires out. Doing a bit of research on this it actually looks like it happened at least two times once in 2019 [1] and previously in 2011 [2]. Looks like all the customers eventually got their tires back, but in Norway we have deadlines for when you need to change from summer tires to winter tires and if you have studded tires then you have to change back by a week or so after end of easter. So customers were in a bit of a pickle. 1: https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/bilverksted-har-stengt-dorene-_-kundene-far-ikke-dekkene-tilbake-1.14754793 https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/bilverksted-har-stengt-dorene-_... 2: https://www.rb.no/lokale-nyheter/kunder-fortviler-over-dekkhotell-konkurs/s/1-95-5566826 https://www.rb.no/lokale-nyheter/kunder-fortviler-over-dekkh...
  - deafpolygon 3y ago
    > This sounds a bit far fetched. Wish it were. There's more to the story that I'm not permitted to discuss. But the brush strokes are there, and all true. Unfortunately.
Anthony-G 3y ago
I almost get the impression that the act of gathering of evidence for the supposed CFAA violation is intended as a form of extrajudicial punishment.
- superkuh 3y ago
  Yes, CFAA raids are definitely done as a form of extrajudicial punishment. When the FBI raided me at 6am with guns drawn in ~2010 they never indicted me, never charged me with anything. But they did steal all my computers and electronics, and all my flatmate's computers and electronics, and got me kicked out of my apartment (which they trashed). That morning they raided ~100 people across the US as part of a giant warrant to try to quash dissent and make people think twice about supporting wikileaks. It ruined my life despite no crimes being involved. I didn't receive my computer equipment back until literally last year: 2022. And they shipped them back in two large thin cardboard box with computer parts sliding around freely inside. Literally it arrived at my house with a video card poking half out through the box side. Obviously non-functional. One last "fuck you" from the FBI for doing nothing but being politically active.
  - Anthony-G 3y ago
    Thanks for providing your story. I hear about people having all their electronic devices seized for spurious CFAA charges but it doesn’t make the news when the devices are returned more than a decade later – by which time they’d be obsolete even if they hadn’t been broken. I also wasn’t aware of the other damages that are inflicted on the victims such as intimidation with the threat of firearms, having their home wrecked and potential loss of one’s home. Best wishes and thanks for sticking your neck above the parapet for the rest of us.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    I'd love to hear more about your story, if you're willing. If not willing, feel free to disregard. Were you uploading stuff to wikileaks? If so, what kind of stuff? Were you donating to WL? Did you have any "classified" data in your posession? What did the warrant say about the target, the reasonable suspicion, etc? Do you have a copy of the warrant you'd be willing to share?

Worse than that- even if you are adjacent to a crime that took place and not the suspect, they can also invade your privacy - rifle through all of your private data online and so on. I had a friend who owns a PC repair shop who bought a laptop from another 'friend' that was sold to him illegally. (He did not know it was illegally stolen from the next state over) The state police came in (with FBI in tow) and seized all of his equipment. Every last computer (all of his own, as well as customers that had their pc in for repair) in the shop was checked over. They held onto his equipment (along with 3 other customers) for 6 months, and he had to make do with a laptop to keep his business running. Fortunately, he had backed up his PC repair software to another location. Or he would have been out of business. All because the FBI wanted to be thorough. Not because he was on suspicion of a crime.

hmottestad 3y ago
This sounds a bit far fetched. Then again I remember a story about a tire storage facility in Norway that went bankrupt and no one could get their winter tires out. Doing a bit of research on this it actually looks like it happened at least two times once in 2019 [1] and previously in 2011 [2]. Looks like all the customers eventually got their tires back, but in Norway we have deadlines for when you need to change from summer tires to winter tires and if you have studded tires then you have to change back by a week or so after end of easter. So customers were in a bit of a pickle. 1: https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/bilverksted-har-stengt-dorene-_-kundene-far-ikke-dekkene-tilbake-1.14754793 https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/bilverksted-har-stengt-dorene-_... 2: https://www.rb.no/lokale-nyheter/kunder-fortviler-over-dekkhotell-konkurs/s/1-95-5566826 https://www.rb.no/lokale-nyheter/kunder-fortviler-over-dekkh...
- deafpolygon 3y ago
  > This sounds a bit far fetched. Wish it were. There's more to the story that I'm not permitted to discuss. But the brush strokes are there, and all true. Unfortunately.

Anthony-G 3y ago

I almost get the impression that the act of gathering of evidence for the supposed CFAA violation is intended as a form of extrajudicial punishment.

superkuh 3y ago
Yes, CFAA raids are definitely done as a form of extrajudicial punishment. When the FBI raided me at 6am with guns drawn in ~2010 they never indicted me, never charged me with anything. But they did steal all my computers and electronics, and all my flatmate's computers and electronics, and got me kicked out of my apartment (which they trashed). That morning they raided ~100 people across the US as part of a giant warrant to try to quash dissent and make people think twice about supporting wikileaks. It ruined my life despite no crimes being involved. I didn't receive my computer equipment back until literally last year: 2022. And they shipped them back in two large thin cardboard box with computer parts sliding around freely inside. Literally it arrived at my house with a video card poking half out through the box side. Obviously non-functional. One last "fuck you" from the FBI for doing nothing but being politically active.
- Anthony-G 3y ago
  Thanks for providing your story. I hear about people having all their electronic devices seized for spurious CFAA charges but it doesn’t make the news when the devices are returned more than a decade later – by which time they’d be obsolete even if they hadn’t been broken. I also wasn’t aware of the other damages that are inflicted on the victims such as intimidation with the threat of firearms, having their home wrecked and potential loss of one’s home. Best wishes and thanks for sticking your neck above the parapet for the rest of us.
- freedomben 3y ago
  I'd love to hear more about your story, if you're willing. If not willing, feel free to disregard. Were you uploading stuff to wikileaks? If so, what kind of stuff? Were you donating to WL? Did you have any "classified" data in your posession? What did the warrant say about the target, the reasonable suspicion, etc? Do you have a copy of the warrant you'd be willing to share?