4 ms·

You think Israel would have a blockade if the Egypt border crossing was not under their control? Why don't you read the first section here. https://en.m.wikiped

You think Israel would have a blockade if the Egypt border crossing was not under their control? Why don't you read the first section here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing Are you trying to say that not a single Palesitinan has been displaced? The nakba is largely why we have these problems today, and it's still going on.

nailer 3y ago
Again: Egypt could open it's border tomorrow if it wished to. Egypt doesn't wish to. Hence the agreement with Israel. > The nakba is largely why we have these problems today Not quite, the displacement happened, but that's a symptom of the cause: the wars declared by Arab states after 1948 mentioned in the comment you're replying to. Likewise Poland and France still own land gained from Germany after WW2.
- Hikikomori 3y ago
  Do you believe that Israel would allow them to open the border and decide themselves what can go over? Israel have de facto control over this border as they decide what goods and which people can move through it. Saying that Gaza is not under a blockade because they have an Egyptian border is meaningless and disingenuous. So it's just fine if they stole some land and kicked the people out? They should just be happy with losing everything they have. Is Israel still at war with the west bank? As they're still doing the same thing, and under such circumstances you say it's ok.
  - hluska 3y ago
    Your first question cannot be answered because Egypt has always refused Palestinian refugees. Gaza was Egyptian territory but Egypt does not want them back. Egypt’s reasons vary. One stated reason was that they fear that Palestinian refugees will attack Israel from Egyptian soil and threaten the 40 year peace between the nations. Another reason is that Egypt had its own problem with extremists and accused Hamas of backing them. A third reason which we really shouldn’t overlook is that Egypt and Israel want to improve their economic relationship and increase bilateral trade to $700 million a year. Fourth, Egypt also brings up the concepts of displacement and right of return but that’s a level way beyond my understanding so I’ll insert it as a fact but cannot speak to it in any way. International law is such that Israel would have a lot of difficulty keeping Rafah Rafah (for lack of a better word to describe that clusterfuck of a border) if Egypt was interested in fighting for its integrity. They’re not. Jordan has also always refused Palestinian refugees. Finally, Israel has made many overtures for peace. Those overtures have destroyed political careers and resulted in at least one assassination. Despite the overtures, the attacks still continued. I’m not willing to engage unless you can tell me about some of these Israeli attempts at peace. Show me that you have some understanding of the other side and we can talk. But otherwise, I get very bored without balance.
    - Hikikomori 3y ago
      Why did control of the border turn into Egypt refuses to have a completely open border? We've already established that Israel controls what goes in and out of Egypts border, as you need permission from Israel to enter Gaza through Rafah. I'll paste the wiki sentence in case you missed it and leave this discussion there's no point in saying anything else. "Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval." Every overture of peace from Israel has contained poisoned pills. Lasting peace cannot be made in this manner, see Treaty of Versailles. Everyone except Israel has now accepted the 1967 borders, even Hamas. The two state solution is impossible unless Israel gives up what it has taken in the West Bank, just look at the pockmarks on a map. Did you really bring up the assassination that the current right wing government in Israel called for publicly and don't think there's a problem with Israels leadership? I'm afraid to say that I missed the latest Hasbara episodes so I guess you won't respond.
      - nailer 3y ago
        Egypt determines it's own borders. Nobody is forcing Egypt to signs deals with Israel. Egypt does what it wants because Egypt is a sovereign state. The comment you're replying to has explained this very clearly and patiently. > I'm afraid to say that I missed the latest Hasbara episodes so I guess you won't respond. The sad thing is the parent got flagged and you're the one breaking the HN guidelines.
        Hikikomori 3y ago
        The question was if Israel can control how much food can enter Gaza no? You said that they have a border with Egypt, as if Israel does not control what goes in and out there and they do not have an effective blockade. It clearly does not matter if Egypt allows them to do this or not. In response to someone that basically said "say something nice about Israel or I wont talk to you".

nailer 3y ago

Again: Egypt could open it's border tomorrow if it wished to. Egypt doesn't wish to. Hence the agreement with Israel. > The nakba is largely why we have these problems today Not quite, the displacement happened, but that's a symptom of the cause: the wars declared by Arab states after 1948 mentioned in the comment you're replying to. Likewise Poland and France still own land gained from Germany after WW2.

Hikikomori 3y ago
Do you believe that Israel would allow them to open the border and decide themselves what can go over? Israel have de facto control over this border as they decide what goods and which people can move through it. Saying that Gaza is not under a blockade because they have an Egyptian border is meaningless and disingenuous. So it's just fine if they stole some land and kicked the people out? They should just be happy with losing everything they have. Is Israel still at war with the west bank? As they're still doing the same thing, and under such circumstances you say it's ok.
- hluska 3y ago
  Your first question cannot be answered because Egypt has always refused Palestinian refugees. Gaza was Egyptian territory but Egypt does not want them back. Egypt’s reasons vary. One stated reason was that they fear that Palestinian refugees will attack Israel from Egyptian soil and threaten the 40 year peace between the nations. Another reason is that Egypt had its own problem with extremists and accused Hamas of backing them. A third reason which we really shouldn’t overlook is that Egypt and Israel want to improve their economic relationship and increase bilateral trade to $700 million a year. Fourth, Egypt also brings up the concepts of displacement and right of return but that’s a level way beyond my understanding so I’ll insert it as a fact but cannot speak to it in any way. International law is such that Israel would have a lot of difficulty keeping Rafah Rafah (for lack of a better word to describe that clusterfuck of a border) if Egypt was interested in fighting for its integrity. They’re not. Jordan has also always refused Palestinian refugees. Finally, Israel has made many overtures for peace. Those overtures have destroyed political careers and resulted in at least one assassination. Despite the overtures, the attacks still continued. I’m not willing to engage unless you can tell me about some of these Israeli attempts at peace. Show me that you have some understanding of the other side and we can talk. But otherwise, I get very bored without balance.
  - Hikikomori 3y ago
    Why did control of the border turn into Egypt refuses to have a completely open border? We've already established that Israel controls what goes in and out of Egypts border, as you need permission from Israel to enter Gaza through Rafah. I'll paste the wiki sentence in case you missed it and leave this discussion there's no point in saying anything else. "Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval." Every overture of peace from Israel has contained poisoned pills. Lasting peace cannot be made in this manner, see Treaty of Versailles. Everyone except Israel has now accepted the 1967 borders, even Hamas. The two state solution is impossible unless Israel gives up what it has taken in the West Bank, just look at the pockmarks on a map. Did you really bring up the assassination that the current right wing government in Israel called for publicly and don't think there's a problem with Israels leadership? I'm afraid to say that I missed the latest Hasbara episodes so I guess you won't respond.
    - nailer 3y ago
      Egypt determines it's own borders. Nobody is forcing Egypt to signs deals with Israel. Egypt does what it wants because Egypt is a sovereign state. The comment you're replying to has explained this very clearly and patiently. > I'm afraid to say that I missed the latest Hasbara episodes so I guess you won't respond. The sad thing is the parent got flagged and you're the one breaking the HN guidelines.
      - Hikikomori 3y ago
        The question was if Israel can control how much food can enter Gaza no? You said that they have a border with Egypt, as if Israel does not control what goes in and out there and they do not have an effective blockade. It clearly does not matter if Egypt allows them to do this or not. In response to someone that basically said "say something nice about Israel or I wont talk to you".