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But where are the calculations showing that the electricity, chemicals and equipment needs and their ecological cost are worth it Most of these places are produ

by ta988 3y ago

But where are the calculations showing that the electricity, chemicals and equipment needs and their ecological cost are worth it Most of these places are producing herbs and salads which are low weight and low volume per consumer. And they have a volume of waste that's pretty colossal (growing media for example but also electrical equipment that failed and chemical containers) all of which almost doesn't exist in traditional farming if you measure by unit produced.

chewmieser 3y ago
Yes this is how new developments occur. First it’s prohibitively expensive and then we figure out ways to reduce the costs/waste/etc. This is in its infancy and I’m sure it’ll make more sense as it develops more.
- ahartmetz 3y ago
  Replacing large amounts of free energy from the sun isn't getting cheaper anytime soon.
  - chewmieser 3y ago
    Who says you need to replace it? Solar, windows… Fiber optics? Using molten salt to store and release energy… I’m sure there’s plenty of ways to use the sun’s energy. And again, this is why we iterate… It’s never a win at first… Gotta take some risks like all new ideas
    - antisthenes 3y ago
      > Who says you need to replace it? Solar, windows Windows? So a semi-transparent layer to help isolate the farm from the elements? Kind of like a greenhouse? That thing that existed for several hundred years. > I’m sure there’s plenty of ways to use the sun’s energy. Solar panel to Inverter to Battery to LED lights is just a way to throw away some of that energy. Sure, you're still using it, but a LED is never as efficient as sunlight.
      - chewmieser 3y ago
        Do you get the core concept of vertical farming? It’s just stacked layers of farmland. Greenhouses cannot pack as many layers vertically. It’s pretty straight-forward. If you’re strictly optimizing for just sunlight then sure, greenhouses sound fine. But there’s more factors at play here - like the cost and availability of land now and into the future.
        mjhay 3y ago
        The sunlight incident on a vertical farm is the same as would be incident on a regular farm. Having windows or fiber optics doesn't make up for that, especially because anywhere it would be worth it to have a vertical farm, it would be worth it to have other tall buildings. In addition, if you are making up this energy with solar power, you've negated the land use advantage.
        ahartmetz 3y ago
        Yeah. The only way vertical farming could make sense would be with crops that usually get much more sunlight than they need. Even then, if it's a crop that allows to use machines with massive throughput in conventional farming - vertical farming would need something similarly cheap, too.

by ta988 3y ago

chewmieser 3y ago

Yes this is how new developments occur. First it’s prohibitively expensive and then we figure out ways to reduce the costs/waste/etc. This is in its infancy and I’m sure it’ll make more sense as it develops more.

ahartmetz 3y ago
Replacing large amounts of free energy from the sun isn't getting cheaper anytime soon.
- chewmieser 3y ago
  Who says you need to replace it? Solar, windows… Fiber optics? Using molten salt to store and release energy… I’m sure there’s plenty of ways to use the sun’s energy. And again, this is why we iterate… It’s never a win at first… Gotta take some risks like all new ideas
  - antisthenes 3y ago
    > Who says you need to replace it? Solar, windows Windows? So a semi-transparent layer to help isolate the farm from the elements? Kind of like a greenhouse? That thing that existed for several hundred years. > I’m sure there’s plenty of ways to use the sun’s energy. Solar panel to Inverter to Battery to LED lights is just a way to throw away some of that energy. Sure, you're still using it, but a LED is never as efficient as sunlight.
    - chewmieser 3y ago
      Do you get the core concept of vertical farming? It’s just stacked layers of farmland. Greenhouses cannot pack as many layers vertically. It’s pretty straight-forward. If you’re strictly optimizing for just sunlight then sure, greenhouses sound fine. But there’s more factors at play here - like the cost and availability of land now and into the future.
      - mjhay 3y ago
        The sunlight incident on a vertical farm is the same as would be incident on a regular farm. Having windows or fiber optics doesn't make up for that, especially because anywhere it would be worth it to have a vertical farm, it would be worth it to have other tall buildings. In addition, if you are making up this energy with solar power, you've negated the land use advantage.
        ahartmetz 3y ago
        Yeah. The only way vertical farming could make sense would be with crops that usually get much more sunlight than they need. Even then, if it's a crop that allows to use machines with massive throughput in conventional farming - vertical farming would need something similarly cheap, too.