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I feel like all of these are minor annoyances compared to the more serious safety issues they are trying to prevent. I feel like you are underestimating how stu

I feel like all of these are minor annoyances compared to the more serious safety issues they are trying to prevent. I feel like you are underestimating how stupid the average user is… and especially how stupid the most stupid users are.

lallysingh 3y ago
It's not mainly dumb users, it's users when they're tired, distracted, or ill. Everyone gets like that and some safeguards make sense.
multimoon 3y ago
We have a drivers exam in one form or another in nearly every country that is intended to certify and evaluate your ability to pilot a vehicle. While it doesn’t always, it should include all facets of driving and the car shouldn’t need to hold your hand. I strongly believe that this hand holding cars are required to do now just lowers the average skill of new drivers. A great example of this is an alarming amount of new drivers are absolutely incapable of backing a vehicle up unguided on mirrors alone, they rely solely on the backup camera and it was never a skill they had to learn.
- MattRix 3y ago
  Not sure if part of your argument is that we shouldn’t have safety features like a backup camera because they lead to worse drivers… because that is absurd. At the end of the day, you are never going to be able to do tests or training to the level where it invalidates the need for good UX and safety features. Even for tasks with extensive training like air pilots, there is still a tremendous amount of effort put towards safety and usability. Human beings are fallible.
- acdha 3y ago
  The United States has 43k fatalities caused by drivers every year, and millions of people suffer life-altering injuries and billions in property damages. There are only two ways we’re going to improve that: letting fewer people drive or making cars harder to use unsafely. Since there’s intense political opposition to building bike/transit infrastructure, removing driving privileges or even ticketing unsafe drivers, we’re going to keep seeing attempts to solve the problem with technical measures.
- m463 3y ago
  > unguided on mirrors alone I suspect pretty soon the mirrors may go the way of morse code with respect to tesging. Tesla is trying to eliminate rearview mirrors, replacing them with cameras. that said, I LIKE mirrors - they don't go out or white out in the wrong lighting. I also like turn signals and gearshift levers, which tesla has already eliminated. It seems like the only button you can depend on in a tesla is the hazard lights (by law)
  - averageRoyalty 3y ago
    I'm confused. Teslas (and most cars in the last decade) have a rear view mirror and reverse camera. Tesla also have an indicator stalk ("turn signal"), and their gear shift is also on a stalk, as it was in most 50s and 60s cars. Is there a specific Tesla type or concept vehicle you're referencing here? Because none of the ones I've been in reflect what you're saying.
    - kalleboo 3y ago
      The Cybertruck leaves the factory with rear view mirrors for regulatory reasons but they are easily removeable by the end user and have cameras to take their duty
    - m463 3y ago
      new teslas do not have any stalks - no turn signals or gear shift stalks. turn signals - they are a touch sensor in the middle of the steering wheel. gear shift - the new cars "guess" which direction you want to go and shift for you. You can select a direction on the touchscreen. There is also a touch area underneath the center console for selecting gears (you have to touch it to wake, then touch again to shift). lights are a touch area on the steering wheel. the horn is a touch area on the steering wheel. By law cars require rearview mirrors, so tesla ships them, but they are fighting against them both technically and in a regulatory way. I think tesla is throwing the baby, your spouse and your kids out with the bathwater. I would prefer if these controls were an $2k option, maybe even a dashboard as an option. you are a worse driver in a tesla.
Der_Einzige 3y ago
What's wrong with letting people win darwin awards?
- MattRix 3y ago
  Whatever happened to empathy? Those people don’t deserve to die despite making mistakes or being careless. Many of them probably have kids or other family that love and rely on them.
  - 1970-01-01 3y ago
    Mike Rowe on safety third: https://mikerowe.com/2020/03/walk-me-through-this-safety-third-thing/ https://mikerowe.com/2020/03/walk-me-through-this-safety-thi...
    - MattRix 3y ago
      Not totally sure how that applies here, since I don’t think anyone would argue that having a few extra warnings is somehow slowing down progress. I also disagree with the article for other reasons. The idea that something being the first priority means it’s the only priority is nonsense. Safety can be weighted the highest out of all the priorities while still being balanced with the other priorities.
- gambiting 3y ago
  Nothing. The problem starts when they kill other people doing it, which is unfortunately very common with automotive collisions. It's like when someone gets in my car, sits behind me and says they won't put a seatbelt on, they are fine with taking the risk - to which my reply is that it's fine, but I'm not fine with taking that risk, because in a collision your limp body will go directly through my seat and kill me, even though I have my seatbelt on. So yes, kill yourself if you wish, but don't take others with you.

lallysingh 3y ago

It's not mainly dumb users, it's users when they're tired, distracted, or ill. Everyone gets like that and some safeguards make sense.

multimoon 3y ago

We have a drivers exam in one form or another in nearly every country that is intended to certify and evaluate your ability to pilot a vehicle. While it doesn’t always, it should include all facets of driving and the car shouldn’t need to hold your hand. I strongly believe that this hand holding cars are required to do now just lowers the average skill of new drivers. A great example of this is an alarming amount of new drivers are absolutely incapable of backing a vehicle up unguided on mirrors alone, they rely solely on the backup camera and it was never a skill they had to learn.

MattRix 3y ago
Not sure if part of your argument is that we shouldn’t have safety features like a backup camera because they lead to worse drivers… because that is absurd. At the end of the day, you are never going to be able to do tests or training to the level where it invalidates the need for good UX and safety features. Even for tasks with extensive training like air pilots, there is still a tremendous amount of effort put towards safety and usability. Human beings are fallible.
acdha 3y ago
The United States has 43k fatalities caused by drivers every year, and millions of people suffer life-altering injuries and billions in property damages. There are only two ways we’re going to improve that: letting fewer people drive or making cars harder to use unsafely. Since there’s intense political opposition to building bike/transit infrastructure, removing driving privileges or even ticketing unsafe drivers, we’re going to keep seeing attempts to solve the problem with technical measures.
m463 3y ago
> unguided on mirrors alone I suspect pretty soon the mirrors may go the way of morse code with respect to tesging. Tesla is trying to eliminate rearview mirrors, replacing them with cameras. that said, I LIKE mirrors - they don't go out or white out in the wrong lighting. I also like turn signals and gearshift levers, which tesla has already eliminated. It seems like the only button you can depend on in a tesla is the hazard lights (by law)
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  I'm confused. Teslas (and most cars in the last decade) have a rear view mirror and reverse camera. Tesla also have an indicator stalk ("turn signal"), and their gear shift is also on a stalk, as it was in most 50s and 60s cars. Is there a specific Tesla type or concept vehicle you're referencing here? Because none of the ones I've been in reflect what you're saying.
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    The Cybertruck leaves the factory with rear view mirrors for regulatory reasons but they are easily removeable by the end user and have cameras to take their duty
  - m463 3y ago
    new teslas do not have any stalks - no turn signals or gear shift stalks. turn signals - they are a touch sensor in the middle of the steering wheel. gear shift - the new cars "guess" which direction you want to go and shift for you. You can select a direction on the touchscreen. There is also a touch area underneath the center console for selecting gears (you have to touch it to wake, then touch again to shift). lights are a touch area on the steering wheel. the horn is a touch area on the steering wheel. By law cars require rearview mirrors, so tesla ships them, but they are fighting against them both technically and in a regulatory way. I think tesla is throwing the baby, your spouse and your kids out with the bathwater. I would prefer if these controls were an $2k option, maybe even a dashboard as an option. you are a worse driver in a tesla.

Der_Einzige 3y ago

What's wrong with letting people win darwin awards?

MattRix 3y ago
Whatever happened to empathy? Those people don’t deserve to die despite making mistakes or being careless. Many of them probably have kids or other family that love and rely on them.
- 1970-01-01 3y ago
  Mike Rowe on safety third: https://mikerowe.com/2020/03/walk-me-through-this-safety-third-thing/ https://mikerowe.com/2020/03/walk-me-through-this-safety-thi...
  - MattRix 3y ago
    Not totally sure how that applies here, since I don’t think anyone would argue that having a few extra warnings is somehow slowing down progress. I also disagree with the article for other reasons. The idea that something being the first priority means it’s the only priority is nonsense. Safety can be weighted the highest out of all the priorities while still being balanced with the other priorities.
gambiting 3y ago
Nothing. The problem starts when they kill other people doing it, which is unfortunately very common with automotive collisions. It's like when someone gets in my car, sits behind me and says they won't put a seatbelt on, they are fine with taking the risk - to which my reply is that it's fine, but I'm not fine with taking that risk, because in a collision your limp body will go directly through my seat and kill me, even though I have my seatbelt on. So yes, kill yourself if you wish, but don't take others with you.