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> It does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. It's the practical reality. Putin has said Ukraine is not a real country and Ukrainians are not a real people

> It does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. It's the practical reality. Putin has said Ukraine is not a real country and Ukrainians are not a real people. Ukraine has spent nearly two years now explaining to him that he is wrong. Putin is a slow learner.

jjk166 3y ago
In what way does that support the argument?
- clouddrover 3y ago
  In what way does practical reality support the argument? This is the real world and the real world has real consequences. In the real world practical realities are all that matter. Putin thinks Ukraine "is an inalienable part of our own history, culture, and spiritual space." Putin thinks "Ukraine's ruling circles decided to justify their country's independence through the denial of its past, however, except for border issues. They began to mythologize and rewrite history, edit out everything that united us, and refer to the period when Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union as an occupation." Putin thinks "Ukraine has never had its own authentic statehood. There has never been a sustainable statehood in Ukraine." Putin thinks "that true sovereignty of Ukraine is possible only in partnership with Russia." Putin thinks Ukrainians and Russians "are one people" But, to Putin's bafflement, somehow, mysteriously, Ukrainians don't seem to understand that. Putin's advisors advise “forcing coercion into fraternal relations is the only method that has historically proven effective towards Ukraine.” So Putin's trying that. It's not going very well. Many Russians are dying for Putin's vanity: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/russia-troop-losses-us-intelligence-assessment/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/russia-troop-losses-...
  - jjk166 3y ago
    No, in what way does any of that support the argument that the war was motivated by Putin's personal desire for conquest. It is in fact not practical reality, it is a fiction created by the Kremlin. Claiming Ukraine isn't a sovereign state is Russian propaganda to obfuscate the obvious breach of international law, it is neither a genuinely held belief nor a reason for the war.
    - clouddrover 3y ago
      No, you have it exactly backwards. Claiming Ukraine is run by neo-Nazis and that NATO is an existential threat to Russia is Putin's propaganda to justify his dream of the restoration of the Russian Empire.

jjk166 3y ago

In what way does that support the argument?

clouddrover 3y ago
In what way does practical reality support the argument? This is the real world and the real world has real consequences. In the real world practical realities are all that matter. Putin thinks Ukraine "is an inalienable part of our own history, culture, and spiritual space." Putin thinks "Ukraine's ruling circles decided to justify their country's independence through the denial of its past, however, except for border issues. They began to mythologize and rewrite history, edit out everything that united us, and refer to the period when Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union as an occupation." Putin thinks "Ukraine has never had its own authentic statehood. There has never been a sustainable statehood in Ukraine." Putin thinks "that true sovereignty of Ukraine is possible only in partnership with Russia." Putin thinks Ukrainians and Russians "are one people" But, to Putin's bafflement, somehow, mysteriously, Ukrainians don't seem to understand that. Putin's advisors advise “forcing coercion into fraternal relations is the only method that has historically proven effective towards Ukraine.” So Putin's trying that. It's not going very well. Many Russians are dying for Putin's vanity: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/russia-troop-losses-us-intelligence-assessment/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/russia-troop-losses-...
- jjk166 3y ago
  No, in what way does any of that support the argument that the war was motivated by Putin's personal desire for conquest. It is in fact not practical reality, it is a fiction created by the Kremlin. Claiming Ukraine isn't a sovereign state is Russian propaganda to obfuscate the obvious breach of international law, it is neither a genuinely held belief nor a reason for the war.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    No, you have it exactly backwards. Claiming Ukraine is run by neo-Nazis and that NATO is an existential threat to Russia is Putin's propaganda to justify his dream of the restoration of the Russian Empire.