3 ms·

There was a ceasefire. IDF ended it because Hamas fired rockets and didn't hold up their end of the hostage release bargain. There was a ceasefire before that,

by mvdtnz 3y ago

There was a ceasefire. IDF ended it because Hamas fired rockets and didn't hold up their end of the hostage release bargain. There was a ceasefire before that, which Hamas broke by invading Israel and torturing, raping and murdering over a thousand innocent civilians.

huytersd 3y ago
[flagged]
keefle 3y ago
Thats not completely true. By the time Hamas fired that rocket the time has already ended of the truce (7:00 am of that day), and Hamas was clear that it could not meet the extension criteria (brining out 10 more hostages from the category being exchanged (children and women)), it even proposed moving to another criteria (elderly), but Israel refused Again watch your language and only claim what has been proved (rape has not). I do agree atrocities were committed tho, but to stay partial and critical in this assessment we must be clear with ourselves on what has been proven to have happened, and what didn't. For instance we know Israel is also responsible for a portion of the killing of Israeli civilians on the 7th of October. Many burned bodies for instance turned out to be Hamas operatives hit with hellfire missiles. So let's be careful
- egisspegis 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - xg15 3y ago
    What does this have to do with the question of who broke the ceasefire?
    - egisspegis 3y ago
      Nothing, because I was not replying to that. I was replying to the statement that "rape has not been proved" and everyone stating otherwise should "watch their language".
za3faran 3y ago
[flagged]
- xg15 3y ago
  Do you have sources for both claims? I saw no reason not to believe the rape accusations of Hamas - many women came forward with this and it would absolutely fit with all the other things Hamas did on Oct. 7 - how they paraded around Shani Louk and then later killed her. Unfortunately, rape by Israeli guards of Palestinian captives would also be believable from the reports you hear about treatments of captives.
  - za3faran 3y ago
    As far as I'm aware, there is no single first person testimony of the rape, let alone any independently verified forensic reports. We've seen so many debunked stories coming out of israeli side. Remember the 40 beheaded babies that biden supposedly saw then the white house had to quickly back out of? Or the story that pregnant women were cut up alive and their fetuses extracted? Or that babies were thrown in the ovens? Let's also not forget their many lies before, like how they denied killing Shireen Abu Akleh. These outrageous claims are fitting with the panic then overreaction we're seeing on the israeli side, resulting in them shelling their own kibutzes, and now murdering tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians in cold blood, after announcing terrible things like they're not looking for accuracy, but damage, and that they're fighting "human animals". Not only that, but some stories like the last two in the previous paragraph have actually been documented to have been done by israelis during previous massacres like Der Yassin and Sabra and Shatila. As far as the abuse done by israel on Palestinian women and even children [1] https://jordantimes.com/opinion/ramzy-baroud/untold-story-abuse-palestinian-women-hebron https://jordantimes.com/opinion/ramzy-baroud/untold-story-ab... [2] https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-criminalized-group-following-report-raped-palestinian-child https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-cr... [3] https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-palestinian-women/ https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-pa...

by mvdtnz 3y ago

huytersd 3y ago

[flagged]

keefle 3y ago

Thats not completely true. By the time Hamas fired that rocket the time has already ended of the truce (7:00 am of that day), and Hamas was clear that it could not meet the extension criteria (brining out 10 more hostages from the category being exchanged (children and women)), it even proposed moving to another criteria (elderly), but Israel refused Again watch your language and only claim what has been proved (rape has not). I do agree atrocities were committed tho, but to stay partial and critical in this assessment we must be clear with ourselves on what has been proven to have happened, and what didn't. For instance we know Israel is also responsible for a portion of the killing of Israeli civilians on the 7th of October. Many burned bodies for instance turned out to be Hamas operatives hit with hellfire missiles. So let's be careful

egisspegis 3y ago
[flagged]
- xg15 3y ago
  What does this have to do with the question of who broke the ceasefire?
  - egisspegis 3y ago
    Nothing, because I was not replying to that. I was replying to the statement that "rape has not been proved" and everyone stating otherwise should "watch their language".

za3faran 3y ago

[flagged]

xg15 3y ago
Do you have sources for both claims? I saw no reason not to believe the rape accusations of Hamas - many women came forward with this and it would absolutely fit with all the other things Hamas did on Oct. 7 - how they paraded around Shani Louk and then later killed her. Unfortunately, rape by Israeli guards of Palestinian captives would also be believable from the reports you hear about treatments of captives.
- za3faran 3y ago
  As far as I'm aware, there is no single first person testimony of the rape, let alone any independently verified forensic reports. We've seen so many debunked stories coming out of israeli side. Remember the 40 beheaded babies that biden supposedly saw then the white house had to quickly back out of? Or the story that pregnant women were cut up alive and their fetuses extracted? Or that babies were thrown in the ovens? Let's also not forget their many lies before, like how they denied killing Shireen Abu Akleh. These outrageous claims are fitting with the panic then overreaction we're seeing on the israeli side, resulting in them shelling their own kibutzes, and now murdering tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians in cold blood, after announcing terrible things like they're not looking for accuracy, but damage, and that they're fighting "human animals". Not only that, but some stories like the last two in the previous paragraph have actually been documented to have been done by israelis during previous massacres like Der Yassin and Sabra and Shatila. As far as the abuse done by israel on Palestinian women and even children [1] https://jordantimes.com/opinion/ramzy-baroud/untold-story-abuse-palestinian-women-hebron https://jordantimes.com/opinion/ramzy-baroud/untold-story-ab... [2] https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-criminalized-group-following-report-raped-palestinian-child https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-cr... [3] https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-palestinian-women/ https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-pa...