3 ms·

The thing is, bulldozing is also happening in the West Bank, which has nothing to do with Hamas. Of note in this conflict, many genocidal comments from Israeli

The thing is, bulldozing is also happening in the West Bank, which has nothing to do with Hamas. Of note in this conflict, many genocidal comments from Israeli ministers, along with footage taken by IDF soldiers glorifying the destruction, several faked testimonies (admitted by the IDF) including the infamous calendar video, and a lack of evidence over claims that hospitals are being used as Hamas HQs, add up to a notable inconsistency between Israel’s stated aims and what is actually happening there. As referred to in other comments, terrorism in Northern Ireland and Spain were solved by coming to the negotiating table. Additionally, rather than bombing civilians which is more likely to Foster a new generation of terrorists out for revenge, Israel could simply spend that war chest donated by the US ($3bn / year and a $14bn aid package) invest in Gaza, give the citizens at least the daily minimum of water recommended by the UN (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_...) and a reliable electricity supply. As the country responsible for these resources it is inhumane to do otherwise. There is a correlation between treating people well, and a lack of violence from them. Of that aid from the US to a distinctly non-third world country, this is probably the most interesting question. Countries very rarely give money for free, so something is being bought here. Nowhere is the question being asked what that is, but it points to unsaid motives.

edanm 3y ago
> The thing is, bulldozing is also happening in the West Bank, which has nothing to do with Hamas. Well, "nothing to do" is a bit of a stretch. There are active Hamas militants in the WB as well, and their actions on October 7th have polled at as having around 70% approval in the WB (which lest I be misunderstood, I mention to indicate a willingness to cooperate with Hamas by the populace, not as justification to attack them for their views). > As referred to in other comments, terrorism in Northern Ireland and Spain were solved by coming to the negotiating table. Great. Israel did that multiple times, and Palestinians have never agreed to any deal offered them. Hamas isn't really trying to negotiate here though - their stated goal is to kill all Jews and take back the entire land. > Additionally, rather than bombing civilians which is more likely to Foster a new generation of terrorists out for revenge, Israel could simply spend that war chest donated by the US ($3bn / year and a $14bn aid package) invest in Gaza, So, disarm itself completely and hope that Hamas doesn't do what it promised it would do over and over, and has already proved capable of doing? Gaza gets enormous amounts of financial aid, e.g. $600m in 2020 (just the first figure I found on Google). You know where that aid goes? Hamas steals it to finance its war against Israel. You can literally see videos of them attacking food aid trucks coming into Gaza now and stealing the food for themselves. > As the country responsible for these resources it is inhumane to do otherwise. There is a correlation between treating people well, and a lack of violence from them. Israel isn't wholly responsible for these resources, Hamas is the government of Gaza and is responsible for it. Israel provides some water to Gaza and sells some electricity to Gaza. But really, why do you think Gaza, despite enormous financial aid from around the world, is still reliant on Israel for so many things? It's not like Mexico is reliant on the US for everything.
- alexisread 3y ago
  > Well, "nothing to do" is a bit of a stretch. There are active Hamas militants in the WB as well, and their actions on October 7th have polled at as having around 70% approval in the WB (which lest I be misunderstood, I mention to indicate a willingness to cooperate with Hamas by the populace, not as justification to attack them for their views). An approval rating does not justify bulldozing buildings in the WB, nor detaining WB Palestinians for no reason (see https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinians-detention-and-available-swap#:~:text=In%20short%2C%20Israeli%20settlers%20and,imprisoned%20without%20basic%20due%20process https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-.... and https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/28/arrests https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/28/arrests 133 from the WB). The detention law is discriminatory, and has been called out by rights groups. > Great. Israel did that multiple times, and Palestinians have never agreed to any deal offered them. Hamas isn't really trying to negotiate here though - their stated goal is to kill all Jews and take back the entire land. Aside from proof here, so what? Rejection happened multiple times in NI before the Good Friday Agreement was drafted, this does not mean it should not be attempted again. > So, disarm itself completely and hope that Hamas doesn't do what it promised it would do over and over, and has already proved capable of doing? I didn't say that. Disarming completely is a very black and white statement, truces and cooperation are forged from small steps eg. a reliable and adequate water supply. > Gaza gets enormous amounts of financial aid, e.g. $600m in 2020 (just the first figure I found on Google). You know where that aid goes? Hamas steals it to finance its war against Israel. Again, finance is no good if basic human rights are not met eg. water, electricity (and arguably internet). > Israel isn't wholly responsible for these resources, Hamas is the government of Gaza and is responsible for it. Israel provides some water to Gaza and sells some electricity to Gaza. Literally, the first sentence on the wikipedia page states that Israel has complete control over the water supply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_... Electricity is probably the same, given that the supply to Gaza was completely cut off. To claim otherwise is disingenuous.

edanm 3y ago

> The thing is, bulldozing is also happening in the West Bank, which has nothing to do with Hamas. Well, "nothing to do" is a bit of a stretch. There are active Hamas militants in the WB as well, and their actions on October 7th have polled at as having around 70% approval in the WB (which lest I be misunderstood, I mention to indicate a willingness to cooperate with Hamas by the populace, not as justification to attack them for their views). > As referred to in other comments, terrorism in Northern Ireland and Spain were solved by coming to the negotiating table. Great. Israel did that multiple times, and Palestinians have never agreed to any deal offered them. Hamas isn't really trying to negotiate here though - their stated goal is to kill all Jews and take back the entire land. > Additionally, rather than bombing civilians which is more likely to Foster a new generation of terrorists out for revenge, Israel could simply spend that war chest donated by the US ($3bn / year and a $14bn aid package) invest in Gaza, So, disarm itself completely and hope that Hamas doesn't do what it promised it would do over and over, and has already proved capable of doing? Gaza gets enormous amounts of financial aid, e.g. $600m in 2020 (just the first figure I found on Google). You know where that aid goes? Hamas steals it to finance its war against Israel. You can literally see videos of them attacking food aid trucks coming into Gaza now and stealing the food for themselves. > As the country responsible for these resources it is inhumane to do otherwise. There is a correlation between treating people well, and a lack of violence from them. Israel isn't wholly responsible for these resources, Hamas is the government of Gaza and is responsible for it. Israel provides some water to Gaza and sells some electricity to Gaza. But really, why do you think Gaza, despite enormous financial aid from around the world, is still reliant on Israel for so many things? It's not like Mexico is reliant on the US for everything.

alexisread 3y ago
> Well, "nothing to do" is a bit of a stretch. There are active Hamas militants in the WB as well, and their actions on October 7th have polled at as having around 70% approval in the WB (which lest I be misunderstood, I mention to indicate a willingness to cooperate with Hamas by the populace, not as justification to attack them for their views). An approval rating does not justify bulldozing buildings in the WB, nor detaining WB Palestinians for no reason (see https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinians-detention-and-available-swap#:~:text=In%20short%2C%20Israeli%20settlers%20and,imprisoned%20without%20basic%20due%20process https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-.... and https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/28/arrests https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/28/arrests 133 from the WB). The detention law is discriminatory, and has been called out by rights groups. > Great. Israel did that multiple times, and Palestinians have never agreed to any deal offered them. Hamas isn't really trying to negotiate here though - their stated goal is to kill all Jews and take back the entire land. Aside from proof here, so what? Rejection happened multiple times in NI before the Good Friday Agreement was drafted, this does not mean it should not be attempted again. > So, disarm itself completely and hope that Hamas doesn't do what it promised it would do over and over, and has already proved capable of doing? I didn't say that. Disarming completely is a very black and white statement, truces and cooperation are forged from small steps eg. a reliable and adequate water supply. > Gaza gets enormous amounts of financial aid, e.g. $600m in 2020 (just the first figure I found on Google). You know where that aid goes? Hamas steals it to finance its war against Israel. Again, finance is no good if basic human rights are not met eg. water, electricity (and arguably internet). > Israel isn't wholly responsible for these resources, Hamas is the government of Gaza and is responsible for it. Israel provides some water to Gaza and sells some electricity to Gaza. Literally, the first sentence on the wikipedia page states that Israel has complete control over the water supply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_... Electricity is probably the same, given that the supply to Gaza was completely cut off. To claim otherwise is disingenuous.