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Slightly related. Netflix is that company that doesn't provide English subtitles in Australia (unless the movie/show's original language is not English), and po

Slightly related. Netflix is that company that doesn't provide English subtitles in Australia (unless the movie/show's original language is not English), and possibly other native English countries as well. They do provide closed captions however, so that we get helpful captions such as "loud urinating sounds".

barryvan 3y ago
Is that really so problematic, though? It's the same as ABC iView and SBS OnDemand, from what I can tell... Perhaps this is just to comply with local law, then?
- Tomis02 3y ago
  It is very problematic because modern actors mumble to the point you can't understand much unless the volume is high enough for your entire neighbourhood to hear. Having closed captions instead of subtitles harms immersion. Netflix can provide both English subtitles and closed captions (as seen in some Korean shows). They simply choose not to offer them for most English-language titles.
  - wredue 3y ago
    Lots of subtitles are straight up wrong anyway. You’re nearly as good off guessing what they said in some cases. I honestly thing that they’re created by third parties who just run the audio through an AI and call it a day.
shoelessone 3y ago
Possibly unrelated but similar idea at least: in Japan a lot of the Japanese TV shows I watch don't have English subtitles available, but in the US the same shows on Netflix do have English subtitles. I don't fully understand the reasoning for this on Netflix's side.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  They may not have the license for English subtitles in Japan similar to how outside of Japan you can't get Japanese subtitles on Japanese TV shows because of licensing.
  - Tomis02 3y ago
    I heard the "no license" theory before but I find it hard to believe because Netflix originals suffer from the same problem.
wmil 3y ago
What's really annoying is when you turn on the CC subtitles and someone speaks a foreign language. The on screen subtitle gets covered with an unhelpful "[speaking Japanese]"
- eszed 3y ago
  That's an artistic choice: the POV character in that scene doesn't speak Japanese, so viewers receive information limited to their perception. Languages are handled differently in truly multi-lingual media. Watch _Invasion_ for a good example (the first season is amazing, but we didn't care for the second). There, the audience gets subtitles for everything, so viewers often know more than the characters do. There's a beautiful sequence in the desert where two men, unable to understand each other's language, pour out their hearts to each other, and - unwittingly, and across a cultural chasm - share the same hopes and fears. There's a third way of handling language, which I hardly ever see: the characters on-screen understand each other, but the audience doesn't. The _Star Wars_ by-play between R2-D2 and C3PO is the most accessible example. This is engaging because viewers have to fill in the blanks to infer what one or more of the characters have said. You might prefer that everything be of the second type, but keep an open mind! The creators probably had a reason for making the choice that they did.
  - margalabargala 3y ago
    I don't disagree with anything you said, but I'm afraid you badly misunderstood the comment you replied to. They aren't complaining about closed captions failing to translate foreign speech. They're complaining about the specific instance where the show/movie has English subtitles for that foreign speech already built in and showing on the screen, and when the closed captions show "[speaking Japanese]" it overlays the translation that the filmmakers intended the viewers to receive, preventing them from experiencing the filmmaker's artistic choice.
    - eszed 3y ago
      Ah! OK. I did misunderstand, and I agree that's irritating. Thank you.
watwut 3y ago
I strongly prefer closed captions, but maybe me not being native speaker is what changes it. It is easier to understand when I read what I hear.
pjc50 3y ago
Wait, is there a distinction between "subtitles" and "closed captions"?
- Tomis02 3y ago
  "Subtitles assume the viewer can hear but cannot understand the language or accent, or the speech is not entirely clear, so they transcribe only dialogue and some on-screen text. Captions aim to describe to the deaf and hard of hearing all significant audio content—spoken dialogue and non-speech information such as the identity of speakers and, occasionally, their manner of speaking—along with any significant music or sound effects using words or symbols." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology
- coremoff 3y ago
  Closed captions also provide hints as to non-dialog audio; song lyrics, musical tones, important noises in the background etc. Personally I always use subtitles, and closed captions if it's available; there are quite a lot of audio clues that I wouldn't otherwise know are even interesting, that get highlighted - mostly extra detail rather than plot important, but it does key you up to things happening or about to happen in the background.
eythian 3y ago
Yes, that is annoying. I live somewhere that isn't natively English speaking and so I mostly only have the option to get subtitles in that language even though I read English much better than the local language. I can follow subtitles in a second language, but it's a fair bit more effort (and many people who live here can't do that at all.)

barryvan 3y ago

Is that really so problematic, though? It's the same as ABC iView and SBS OnDemand, from what I can tell... Perhaps this is just to comply with local law, then?

Tomis02 3y ago
It is very problematic because modern actors mumble to the point you can't understand much unless the volume is high enough for your entire neighbourhood to hear. Having closed captions instead of subtitles harms immersion. Netflix can provide both English subtitles and closed captions (as seen in some Korean shows). They simply choose not to offer them for most English-language titles.
- wredue 3y ago
  Lots of subtitles are straight up wrong anyway. You’re nearly as good off guessing what they said in some cases. I honestly thing that they’re created by third parties who just run the audio through an AI and call it a day.

shoelessone 3y ago

Possibly unrelated but similar idea at least: in Japan a lot of the Japanese TV shows I watch don't have English subtitles available, but in the US the same shows on Netflix do have English subtitles. I don't fully understand the reasoning for this on Netflix's side.

charcircuit 3y ago
They may not have the license for English subtitles in Japan similar to how outside of Japan you can't get Japanese subtitles on Japanese TV shows because of licensing.
- Tomis02 3y ago
  I heard the "no license" theory before but I find it hard to believe because Netflix originals suffer from the same problem.

wmil 3y ago

What's really annoying is when you turn on the CC subtitles and someone speaks a foreign language. The on screen subtitle gets covered with an unhelpful "[speaking Japanese]"

eszed 3y ago
That's an artistic choice: the POV character in that scene doesn't speak Japanese, so viewers receive information limited to their perception. Languages are handled differently in truly multi-lingual media. Watch _Invasion_ for a good example (the first season is amazing, but we didn't care for the second). There, the audience gets subtitles for everything, so viewers often know more than the characters do. There's a beautiful sequence in the desert where two men, unable to understand each other's language, pour out their hearts to each other, and - unwittingly, and across a cultural chasm - share the same hopes and fears. There's a third way of handling language, which I hardly ever see: the characters on-screen understand each other, but the audience doesn't. The _Star Wars_ by-play between R2-D2 and C3PO is the most accessible example. This is engaging because viewers have to fill in the blanks to infer what one or more of the characters have said. You might prefer that everything be of the second type, but keep an open mind! The creators probably had a reason for making the choice that they did.
- margalabargala 3y ago
  I don't disagree with anything you said, but I'm afraid you badly misunderstood the comment you replied to. They aren't complaining about closed captions failing to translate foreign speech. They're complaining about the specific instance where the show/movie has English subtitles for that foreign speech already built in and showing on the screen, and when the closed captions show "[speaking Japanese]" it overlays the translation that the filmmakers intended the viewers to receive, preventing them from experiencing the filmmaker's artistic choice.
  - eszed 3y ago
    Ah! OK. I did misunderstand, and I agree that's irritating. Thank you.

watwut 3y ago

I strongly prefer closed captions, but maybe me not being native speaker is what changes it. It is easier to understand when I read what I hear.

pjc50 3y ago

Wait, is there a distinction between "subtitles" and "closed captions"?

Tomis02 3y ago
"Subtitles assume the viewer can hear but cannot understand the language or accent, or the speech is not entirely clear, so they transcribe only dialogue and some on-screen text. Captions aim to describe to the deaf and hard of hearing all significant audio content—spoken dialogue and non-speech information such as the identity of speakers and, occasionally, their manner of speaking—along with any significant music or sound effects using words or symbols." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology
coremoff 3y ago
Closed captions also provide hints as to non-dialog audio; song lyrics, musical tones, important noises in the background etc. Personally I always use subtitles, and closed captions if it's available; there are quite a lot of audio clues that I wouldn't otherwise know are even interesting, that get highlighted - mostly extra detail rather than plot important, but it does key you up to things happening or about to happen in the background.

eythian 3y ago

Yes, that is annoying. I live somewhere that isn't natively English speaking and so I mostly only have the option to get subtitles in that language even though I read English much better than the local language. I can follow subtitles in a second language, but it's a fair bit more effort (and many people who live here can't do that at all.)