6 ms·

Homeopathy is a scam. We should stop pretending it has anything to do with real medicine and pull it off the pharmacies.

acchow 3y ago
I’ve noticed that even herbal remedies are labeled as homeopathic. Is that to address a larger market?
- nearting 3y ago
  It might draw in potential customers who believe in it, yes. Or it might give manufacturers the cover to not include any quantity of said herbs in the product.
financltravsty 3y ago
No more a scam than SSRIs. There’s an undercurrent within some research groups (a woman at Oxford, whose name escapes me at the moment) pushing forward research into the placebo effect and its mediation via — I want to say — the peripheral nervous system, lending some credence towards sham treatments like chiropractic practice. Along with the likes of osteopathy, homeopathy is one of the forgotten forms of medicine. Allopathy, in this day and age, is criminal. Lots of elective surgeries that do nothing more than line pockets of medical device manufacturers, fleece the elderly, and bring prestige to aristocrat wannabes (certain doctors). That is saying nothing about the endemic of overprescription of psychoactive drugs like stimulants, and the rest. Though that’s not to say homeopathy or osteopathy is any better. Once a field with research and experimentation, now relegated to fraudulent shamanism. There’s a lot of lost knowledge from the 19th century that hasn’t been passed down, nor digitized. Some of it remains in libraries here and there.
- tomatotomato31 3y ago
  When you say placebo effect you also have to say nocebo effect. And placebo even work for some if they know it. Which means we can easily give recommendations for modern placebo which is actually cheap to buy and produce. But the homeopatie shit is for sure also responsible for the people not believing in corona etc.
- nearting 3y ago
  This argument is essentially whataboutism - any issues in the practice of modern evidence-based medicine does not in any way validate the efficacy of homeopathy or similar pseudoscientific approaches. On top of that, arguing that most medical recommendations are unnecessary and overpriced doesn't help the case of homeopathy or chiropractic either - I mean, at that point, why charge patients any more than the cost of sugar or a short massage?
  - financltravsty 3y ago
    It’s not an argument, it’s a discussion. All forms of popular and mass-market medicine are shit. See: Sturgeon’s law. Allopathic, “modern medicine,” and homeopathic. Allopathic medicine, I would argue, is pseudoscientific because research where placebo does better or negative results are achieved are thrown out and never published. Instead, it’s p-hacked and methodologically-massaged (knowingly and unknowingly) to achieve the results the grants paid for. And even when published, practice does not keep up with the research. Double blind studies on spinal surgeries are a great example where placebo, stemming from the belief of the patient that he received treatment, is just as effective in alleviating subjective pain. In the placebo case, simply putting the patient under anaesthesia and having him believe he had surgery is enough to resolve spinal pain. Or how about where common spinal surgeries stem from?: surgical experimentation with only flimsy research integrity. The first spinal fusions were essentially no different than lobotomies with how reckless and unethical the practice of experimenting based on loose evidence is. Not even in a research context, but a surgical, and informal one. And yet, the same results can be found with less drastic and life-changing means. Instead of fusing your spine with titanium screws, you could go to a chiropractor for unexplained back pain. Or better yet, figure out the psychosomatic and physical causes (stress, poor muscle tone, etc.), instead of band-aiding the problem. What a thought! Homeopathy, chiropractic, osteopathy, “holistic medicine,” etc. are better when they achieve the same results, for less cost (monetary, physical, what have you), when they work, and do not do further harm to the patient. That doesn’t mean they’re both not scams. But one scam is less harmful en masse than the other. Both use “woo” to achieve the same ends, but neither are honest about it.
    - atoav 3y ago
- atlas_hugged 3y ago
  Bruh what?
- mock-possum 3y ago
  Sorry, what? How are SSRIs a scam?
  - financltravsty 3y ago
    Efficacy vs placebo and side-effect profile compared to placebo. They're over-prescribed, in my opinion, when more fine-grained therapy and lifestyle changes can elicit similar benefits.
consumer451 3y ago
I would agree, I mean of course. Except, doesn’t the placebo effect have something like a 50% efficacy rate for many ills? I always felt like that can’t be right. Is it? I had figured that this was how homeopathy “worked.”
- mips_r4300i 3y ago
  A common number for improvements in outcome by placebo is typically 20%. Significant, but not a game changer.
  - heisenzombie 3y ago
    Also, I think the placebo effect is popularly misunderstood: https://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-weak-regression-to-the-mean-is-the-main-reason-ineffective-treatments-appear-to-work/ https://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-wea...
    - mips_r4300i 3y ago
      Thanks for that article, it confirms what I'd long suspected. The bit about traffic cameras is a good one, and the very same problem of trying to judge health supplements efficacy without RCTs.
- consumer451 3y ago
  Too late to edit, but I just to make clear that I think homeopathy is a total scam.
winternett 3y ago
The premise driving homeopathy is that modern medicine has harmful side effects, and it's also not quite trustworthy even when the FDA approves it. The shear cases of big industry drug settlements and major pharmaceuticals being pulled from shelves is proof that the entire industry of home medicine needs a serious reevaluation. There have been natural cures to many illnesses, like using witch Hazel for ear infections, that should not be simply thrown out, as those cures work much better, and with far less side effects, than taking pills. Big industry loves to suppress information about affordable cures, because it cuts into their profits. I think regulating the profitability and effectiveness of both homeopathy and big pharma is the best move to make sure that cures are valid, but I also think both sciences/practices should be allowed to exist when they are proven, because ultimately, we as humans stand to benefit from having the option of either for our best life/health outcomes overall.
- QuadmasterXLII 3y ago
  When you say Homeopathy, do you mean 10X dillutions, like opposes like, water memory etc? If not, what do you mean?
  - winternett 3y ago
    I gave an example in my prior post... Witch Hazel is a homeopathic treatment that could easily be branded as a treatment for ear cleaning or ear infections. I was not referring to scam treatments and concoctions pushed by quacks of course, but homeopathy is a very big field.
    - wl 3y ago
      While I'm sure there's homeopathic preparations that use witch hazel, the witch hazel you buy at the drug store is not homeopathic because it actually contains witch hazel in a usable concentration. Homeopathic preparations are, by definition, diluted to the point where there's little or none of the allegedly active ingredient you started out with, the nature of that ingredient allegedly being imprinted on the water.
    - 3y ago

acchow 3y ago

I’ve noticed that even herbal remedies are labeled as homeopathic. Is that to address a larger market?

nearting 3y ago
It might draw in potential customers who believe in it, yes. Or it might give manufacturers the cover to not include any quantity of said herbs in the product.

financltravsty 3y ago

No more a scam than SSRIs. There’s an undercurrent within some research groups (a woman at Oxford, whose name escapes me at the moment) pushing forward research into the placebo effect and its mediation via — I want to say — the peripheral nervous system, lending some credence towards sham treatments like chiropractic practice. Along with the likes of osteopathy, homeopathy is one of the forgotten forms of medicine. Allopathy, in this day and age, is criminal. Lots of elective surgeries that do nothing more than line pockets of medical device manufacturers, fleece the elderly, and bring prestige to aristocrat wannabes (certain doctors). That is saying nothing about the endemic of overprescription of psychoactive drugs like stimulants, and the rest. Though that’s not to say homeopathy or osteopathy is any better. Once a field with research and experimentation, now relegated to fraudulent shamanism. There’s a lot of lost knowledge from the 19th century that hasn’t been passed down, nor digitized. Some of it remains in libraries here and there.

tomatotomato31 3y ago
When you say placebo effect you also have to say nocebo effect. And placebo even work for some if they know it. Which means we can easily give recommendations for modern placebo which is actually cheap to buy and produce. But the homeopatie shit is for sure also responsible for the people not believing in corona etc.
nearting 3y ago
This argument is essentially whataboutism - any issues in the practice of modern evidence-based medicine does not in any way validate the efficacy of homeopathy or similar pseudoscientific approaches. On top of that, arguing that most medical recommendations are unnecessary and overpriced doesn't help the case of homeopathy or chiropractic either - I mean, at that point, why charge patients any more than the cost of sugar or a short massage?
- financltravsty 3y ago
  It’s not an argument, it’s a discussion. All forms of popular and mass-market medicine are shit. See: Sturgeon’s law. Allopathic, “modern medicine,” and homeopathic. Allopathic medicine, I would argue, is pseudoscientific because research where placebo does better or negative results are achieved are thrown out and never published. Instead, it’s p-hacked and methodologically-massaged (knowingly and unknowingly) to achieve the results the grants paid for. And even when published, practice does not keep up with the research. Double blind studies on spinal surgeries are a great example where placebo, stemming from the belief of the patient that he received treatment, is just as effective in alleviating subjective pain. In the placebo case, simply putting the patient under anaesthesia and having him believe he had surgery is enough to resolve spinal pain. Or how about where common spinal surgeries stem from?: surgical experimentation with only flimsy research integrity. The first spinal fusions were essentially no different than lobotomies with how reckless and unethical the practice of experimenting based on loose evidence is. Not even in a research context, but a surgical, and informal one. And yet, the same results can be found with less drastic and life-changing means. Instead of fusing your spine with titanium screws, you could go to a chiropractor for unexplained back pain. Or better yet, figure out the psychosomatic and physical causes (stress, poor muscle tone, etc.), instead of band-aiding the problem. What a thought! Homeopathy, chiropractic, osteopathy, “holistic medicine,” etc. are better when they achieve the same results, for less cost (monetary, physical, what have you), when they work, and do not do further harm to the patient. That doesn’t mean they’re both not scams. But one scam is less harmful en masse than the other. Both use “woo” to achieve the same ends, but neither are honest about it.
  - atoav 3y ago
atlas_hugged 3y ago
Bruh what?
mock-possum 3y ago
Sorry, what? How are SSRIs a scam?
- financltravsty 3y ago
  Efficacy vs placebo and side-effect profile compared to placebo. They're over-prescribed, in my opinion, when more fine-grained therapy and lifestyle changes can elicit similar benefits.

consumer451 3y ago

I would agree, I mean of course. Except, doesn’t the placebo effect have something like a 50% efficacy rate for many ills? I always felt like that can’t be right. Is it? I had figured that this was how homeopathy “worked.”

mips_r4300i 3y ago
A common number for improvements in outcome by placebo is typically 20%. Significant, but not a game changer.
- heisenzombie 3y ago
  Also, I think the placebo effect is popularly misunderstood: https://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-weak-regression-to-the-mean-is-the-main-reason-ineffective-treatments-appear-to-work/ https://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-wea...
  - mips_r4300i 3y ago
    Thanks for that article, it confirms what I'd long suspected. The bit about traffic cameras is a good one, and the very same problem of trying to judge health supplements efficacy without RCTs.
consumer451 3y ago
Too late to edit, but I just to make clear that I think homeopathy is a total scam.

winternett 3y ago

The premise driving homeopathy is that modern medicine has harmful side effects, and it's also not quite trustworthy even when the FDA approves it. The shear cases of big industry drug settlements and major pharmaceuticals being pulled from shelves is proof that the entire industry of home medicine needs a serious reevaluation. There have been natural cures to many illnesses, like using witch Hazel for ear infections, that should not be simply thrown out, as those cures work much better, and with far less side effects, than taking pills. Big industry loves to suppress information about affordable cures, because it cuts into their profits. I think regulating the profitability and effectiveness of both homeopathy and big pharma is the best move to make sure that cures are valid, but I also think both sciences/practices should be allowed to exist when they are proven, because ultimately, we as humans stand to benefit from having the option of either for our best life/health outcomes overall.

QuadmasterXLII 3y ago
When you say Homeopathy, do you mean 10X dillutions, like opposes like, water memory etc? If not, what do you mean?
- winternett 3y ago
  I gave an example in my prior post... Witch Hazel is a homeopathic treatment that could easily be branded as a treatment for ear cleaning or ear infections. I was not referring to scam treatments and concoctions pushed by quacks of course, but homeopathy is a very big field.
  - wl 3y ago
    While I'm sure there's homeopathic preparations that use witch hazel, the witch hazel you buy at the drug store is not homeopathic because it actually contains witch hazel in a usable concentration. Homeopathic preparations are, by definition, diluted to the point where there's little or none of the allegedly active ingredient you started out with, the nature of that ingredient allegedly being imprinted on the water.
  - 3y ago