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If Hamas would take up a defensive stance, there would never be any conflict. The only reason Israel attacks has been in response to terrorism. You seem to vie

If Hamas would take up a defensive stance, there would never be any conflict. The only reason Israel attacks has been in response to terrorism. You seem to view Hamas as just an extreme pro-Palestinian faction that's gone too far, but actually they're a terrorism group in every sense of the word, not tomorrow's leaders. (See video of Hamas throwing Fatah members off a rooftop one by one to their deaths, as one of numerous examples, besides that USA, EU, UK, Canada ... all class it was a terrorist organisation)

hbt 3y ago
Hamas is a resistance movement and they have every right to resist by any means necessary. the same way the French resisted against the Nazis or the algerians against the French occupation. I don't hear french resistance being called terrorists despite sabotage operations, assassinations of nazi personnel and executing collaborators. they carried a successful military raid, captured hostages and exchanged them for Palestinian hostages. I completely reject the classification of Hamas as a terrorist group by countries that won't even join the international criminal court to protect their war criminals.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  [flagged]
- js212 3y ago
  Raping and beheading people is terrorism. Even most Irish people hate Hamas. https://oct7th.org https://oct7th.org
  - hbt 3y ago
    Yes, I agree those are war crimes and October 7th is called a Tuesday in the West Bank. You're welcome to read about the torture programs by the IDF from reputable organizations like humans right watch, amnesty international or even former IDF soldiers (your own people) explaining their tactics to terrorize the Palestinian population. I have more trust in those organizations as well as former IDF soldiers (who overcame the brainwashing, grew a conscience and spoke up) than the repeated lies in the zionist controlled media (40 babies? who lies about stuff like that?). You can read more about resistance under international law and how it's defined by the U.N charter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20charter%2C%20the,subjugation%2C%20domination%20and%20exploitation%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist#:~:text=Based%.... Again, I will take that definition over the definition of a resistance movement by a military occupation.
- isr 3y ago
  well said
C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
> If Hamas would take up a defensive stance, there would never be any conflict. The only reason Israel attacks has been in response to terrorism. Proof that this claim is not true is the occupation of West Bank which has submitted itself to Israeli rule without violent opposition. I am sure that you have heard the long list of grievances of its population against the Israeli occupation a million times by now, so I will spare you from going much into it here (military law for Palestinians, imprisonment of children, night raids just to show force and keep IDF soldiers trained etc). Additionally, using the "terrorism" label is fairly meaningless when the label is assigned by one's enemy that keeps the land under occupation. An enemy that has an overwhelming technological, economical and military advantage that makes a direct confrontation impossible. While Israeli airplanes and drones are leveling residential buildings from distance, they are calling shooting of primitive rockets and guerrilla-style warfare terrorism. Every occupying power in the history of humanity, ever since the word "terrorism" has been introduced into our vocabulary, has called every resistance group terrorists. Also, the countries that you named that have publicly proclaimed Hamas a terrorist groups are all close NATO allies that mostly follow the lead of USA, which in turn strongly supports Israel's position. We can all agree that Oct 7 attack of Hamas was horrible and that attrocities were committed during which a little under 400 soldiers and a little over 800 civillians were murdered. But if you will call that terrorism, then you have to be logically consistent and call the subsequent revenge-bombing of Gaza (in order to punish Gazans and Hamas alike for striking) what it is, given the death toll, siege conditions, genocidal rhetoric of Israel's leadership, and the devastation inflicted even just in the first few weeks, before the ground offensive even began. About 4000 children were dead before the ground invasion. Children. Children are not Hamas fighters who invaded Israel. Call Hamas whatever you want, but be consistent and just when applying labels.
- esyir 3y ago
  Can't give anything but acceptance of civilian casualties when the Hamas gameplan is literally to attack from civilian areas. At the end of the day, Hamas is deliberately putting civilian lives in the line of fire, and are wholly to blame for this. Chastising Israel for deaths caused by this strategy is as good as legitimizing attacks from civilian territories, and will only increase this in the future. This is considering that Israel had done a degree due diligence in harm mitigation (roof knocking, evacuations). Contrast this with Hamas, which deliberately attacks civilian areas.

hbt 3y ago

Hamas is a resistance movement and they have every right to resist by any means necessary. the same way the French resisted against the Nazis or the algerians against the French occupation. I don't hear french resistance being called terrorists despite sabotage operations, assassinations of nazi personnel and executing collaborators. they carried a successful military raid, captured hostages and exchanged them for Palestinian hostages. I completely reject the classification of Hamas as a terrorist group by countries that won't even join the international criminal court to protect their war criminals.

shiroiuma 3y ago
[flagged]
js212 3y ago
Raping and beheading people is terrorism. Even most Irish people hate Hamas. https://oct7th.org https://oct7th.org
- hbt 3y ago
  Yes, I agree those are war crimes and October 7th is called a Tuesday in the West Bank. You're welcome to read about the torture programs by the IDF from reputable organizations like humans right watch, amnesty international or even former IDF soldiers (your own people) explaining their tactics to terrorize the Palestinian population. I have more trust in those organizations as well as former IDF soldiers (who overcame the brainwashing, grew a conscience and spoke up) than the repeated lies in the zionist controlled media (40 babies? who lies about stuff like that?). You can read more about resistance under international law and how it's defined by the U.N charter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20charter%2C%20the,subjugation%2C%20domination%20and%20exploitation%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist#:~:text=Based%.... Again, I will take that definition over the definition of a resistance movement by a military occupation.
isr 3y ago
well said

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago

> If Hamas would take up a defensive stance, there would never be any conflict. The only reason Israel attacks has been in response to terrorism. Proof that this claim is not true is the occupation of West Bank which has submitted itself to Israeli rule without violent opposition. I am sure that you have heard the long list of grievances of its population against the Israeli occupation a million times by now, so I will spare you from going much into it here (military law for Palestinians, imprisonment of children, night raids just to show force and keep IDF soldiers trained etc). Additionally, using the "terrorism" label is fairly meaningless when the label is assigned by one's enemy that keeps the land under occupation. An enemy that has an overwhelming technological, economical and military advantage that makes a direct confrontation impossible. While Israeli airplanes and drones are leveling residential buildings from distance, they are calling shooting of primitive rockets and guerrilla-style warfare terrorism. Every occupying power in the history of humanity, ever since the word "terrorism" has been introduced into our vocabulary, has called every resistance group terrorists. Also, the countries that you named that have publicly proclaimed Hamas a terrorist groups are all close NATO allies that mostly follow the lead of USA, which in turn strongly supports Israel's position. We can all agree that Oct 7 attack of Hamas was horrible and that attrocities were committed during which a little under 400 soldiers and a little over 800 civillians were murdered. But if you will call that terrorism, then you have to be logically consistent and call the subsequent revenge-bombing of Gaza (in order to punish Gazans and Hamas alike for striking) what it is, given the death toll, siege conditions, genocidal rhetoric of Israel's leadership, and the devastation inflicted even just in the first few weeks, before the ground offensive even began. About 4000 children were dead before the ground invasion. Children. Children are not Hamas fighters who invaded Israel. Call Hamas whatever you want, but be consistent and just when applying labels.

esyir 3y ago
Can't give anything but acceptance of civilian casualties when the Hamas gameplan is literally to attack from civilian areas. At the end of the day, Hamas is deliberately putting civilian lives in the line of fire, and are wholly to blame for this. Chastising Israel for deaths caused by this strategy is as good as legitimizing attacks from civilian territories, and will only increase this in the future. This is considering that Israel had done a degree due diligence in harm mitigation (roof knocking, evacuations). Contrast this with Hamas, which deliberately attacks civilian areas.