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I think it's interesting to believe that Israel can effectively and permanently take out Hamas (and the like), while they cannot prevent October 7th. Either the

by kurthr 3y ago

I think it's interesting to believe that Israel can effectively and permanently take out Hamas (and the like), while they cannot prevent October 7th. Either they have sufficient intelligence/surveillance or they don't. The last "election" in 2006 was the year after a majority of the population of Gaza was born (median age 18), and politically, it seems Netanyahu prefers Hamas to any less radical representation, because fear is a tool. Furthermore, the leadership of Hamas doesn't even reside within Gaza (in Qatar), though it's not like Israel holds it's targeted killings within its borders, either. The people of both sides suffer, but those outside and those with political power on both sides are eliminationist. I think it's important to listen to member of cabinet when they say "nukes are on the table" or a settler when they say that everything from the Nile to Tripoli are rightfully theirs, when you evaluate similar Hamas rhetoric. https://apnews.com/article/israel-nuclear-weapons-gaza-iran-china-1e18f34dcec40582166796b0ade65768 https://apnews.com/article/israel-nuclear-weapons-gaza-iran-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BETNqgBCjwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BETNqgBCjwc Israel claims that 55 Hamas commanders have been killed. What is the proper ratio of that to civilian deaths (17,700)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2023_Israel%... How does Israel know there are bunker/tunnels under the Al Sharif hospital? They built them. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-israel-build-bunker-under-shifa-hospital-1844107 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-israel-build-bunker-...

ashirusnw 3y ago
[flagged]
- hbt 3y ago
  look at a map of the west bank and tell me more about those massive peace efforts. if living under a blockade or under military occupation is your idea of peace, no wonder people are resisting. Israel is not interested in peace, they're interested in submission.
edanm 3y ago
> I think it's interesting to believe that Israel can effectively and permanently take out Hamas (and the like), while they cannot prevent October 7th. Either they have sufficient intelligence/surveillance or they don't. That's a false dichotomy. Preventing surprise attacks on your soil, given an enemy that is smart and tries to outsmart you, is a completely different thing to engaging in war. > The people of both sides suffer, but those outside and those with political power on both sides are eliminationist. I think it's important to listen to member of cabinet when they say "nukes are on the table" or a settler when they say that everything from the Nile to Tripoli are rightfully theirs, when you evaluate similar Hamas rhetoric. These are fringe views among the Israeli public, which you can see because that minister was widely condemned for that remark and withdrew it, and most statements made by Israeli politicians state the opposite. Hamas's leaders have repeated the claim that they will perform October 7th over and over and over. And they actually did it when having the chance. There can be no doubt in any rational person that, were they to have the means to do it again, they would. Both sides are simply not equal here in their desires, and there's no reading of the facts that shows otherwise. (And btw, like many people on the Israeli center-left, I hate the settlers too, and definitely consider some of their actions to be terrorism much like Hamas's, though far smaller in scope, fortunately.) > Israel claims that 55 Hamas commanders have been killed. What is the proper ratio of that to civilian deaths (17,700)? I have no idea where you're getting that figure. Israel says that it estimates are that 5-7k militants have been killed. > How does Israel know there are bunker/tunnels under the Al Sharif hospital? They built them. What is your point? That Israel built some tunnels at some point doesn't prove anything. The Israeli claim is that an entire tunnel network was built out by Hamas for the purpose of using it as headquarters and to commit terror attacks. Which is true and verified.

by kurthr 3y ago

ashirusnw 3y ago

[flagged]

hbt 3y ago
look at a map of the west bank and tell me more about those massive peace efforts. if living under a blockade or under military occupation is your idea of peace, no wonder people are resisting. Israel is not interested in peace, they're interested in submission.

edanm 3y ago

> I think it's interesting to believe that Israel can effectively and permanently take out Hamas (and the like), while they cannot prevent October 7th. Either they have sufficient intelligence/surveillance or they don't. That's a false dichotomy. Preventing surprise attacks on your soil, given an enemy that is smart and tries to outsmart you, is a completely different thing to engaging in war. > The people of both sides suffer, but those outside and those with political power on both sides are eliminationist. I think it's important to listen to member of cabinet when they say "nukes are on the table" or a settler when they say that everything from the Nile to Tripoli are rightfully theirs, when you evaluate similar Hamas rhetoric. These are fringe views among the Israeli public, which you can see because that minister was widely condemned for that remark and withdrew it, and most statements made by Israeli politicians state the opposite. Hamas's leaders have repeated the claim that they will perform October 7th over and over and over. And they actually did it when having the chance. There can be no doubt in any rational person that, were they to have the means to do it again, they would. Both sides are simply not equal here in their desires, and there's no reading of the facts that shows otherwise. (And btw, like many people on the Israeli center-left, I hate the settlers too, and definitely consider some of their actions to be terrorism much like Hamas's, though far smaller in scope, fortunately.) > Israel claims that 55 Hamas commanders have been killed. What is the proper ratio of that to civilian deaths (17,700)? I have no idea where you're getting that figure. Israel says that it estimates are that 5-7k militants have been killed. > How does Israel know there are bunker/tunnels under the Al Sharif hospital? They built them. What is your point? That Israel built some tunnels at some point doesn't prove anything. The Israeli claim is that an entire tunnel network was built out by Hamas for the purpose of using it as headquarters and to commit terror attacks. Which is true and verified.