4 ms·

How do you expect Palestine to defend itself against an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry? Doing nothing is not an option:

How do you expect Palestine to defend itself against an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry? Doing nothing is not an option: Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine, and they are right next door. The reality is, there is no good solution. Because Israel has engineered it that way, not Palestine, not Hamas.

nvm0n2 3y ago
> Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine No it is not. Israel got its own people out of the Gaza strip years ago and hasn't let them back in since. Israel supplies Gaza with water and electricity because Hamas prefers to spend its resources on building tunnel networks and rockets instead of power stations and water treatment works. It is also militarily superior and has nuclear weapons. If they actually decided to "annihilate" Gaza it would be a smoking pile of glass tomorrow, as the military capability is there. > an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry The IDF wear uniforms and are easily identifiable. > Doing nothing is not an option They have lots of options, including making peace with Israel. Step 1 would be to replace the government committed to its destruction, with one that is willing to talk instead of launch rockets. But the Palestinians seem to support the existing strategy.
- covercash 3y ago
  > They have lots of options, including making peace with Israel. Step 1 would be to replace the government committed to its destruction, with one that is willing to talk instead of launch rockets. How’s that working out for the Palestinians in the West Bank?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Obviously better than the Palestinians in Gaza? Is that in question?
    - evancox100 3y ago
      I mean, the actual material living conditions in the West Bank might be better, but don’t the Gazans at least have some form of sovereignty over their land? My understanding is that there is no real independent West Bank Palestinian government that exercises security over the land and the people on it. At least not in favor of the Palestinians.
      - runarberg 3y ago
        West Bank also has to suffer constant raids from the IDF in addition to settler violence. Over 100 people had already died in such raids before oct. 7 just this year. They’re land has been partitioned, there are military checkpoints they must go through when the travel inside the West Bank. Many Palestinians are arrested on a regular basis, sometimes without any charges (administrative detention). Settler violence is also a pretty big deal there, it ranges from vandalism, theft, murder and terrorism. This often goes unpunished and sometimes the IDF even helps settlers steal houses and land from West Bank Palestinians. Note that settlers may even include very conservative Floridians who just moved to “Israel” and feel entitled to a house owned and occupied by a Palestinian family.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Would you rather be living as a Palestinian in Gaza or the West Bank today? I think the answer to that is very clear.
        runarberg 3y ago
        West Bank for sure. However this is a false dilemma. You are presenting bow to your occupiers and live under oppression, vs. resist your occupiers and suffer genocidal violence. As a Palestinian these may be your only choices, neither are good. But one is obviously better in the short term. However there is another party to this dilemma, the occupier them selves. They also have a choice not to engage in genocidal violence upon resistance or oppress and colonize upon non-resistance. They have a choice to acknowledge and recognize the sovereignty, to decolonize, to integrate and grant equal rights, etc. The dilemma problem is a damned of you do and damned if you don’t kind. It doesn’t matter what you pick. Your oppressor is the one that needs to pick a different path.
nlh 3y ago
I know the sibling commenter mentioned this, but it bears repeating just for emphasis: > Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine This is categorically false.
- ah27182 3y ago
  It really isnt. You would be blind to think otherwise. “I am the only one who will prevent a Palestinian state in Gaza and [the West Bank] after the war” - Netanyahu
- ignoramous 3y ago
  > This is categorically false If the people of the only democracy in the middle east didn't believe this, they'd not have elected Likud to power for 2 decades and counting. The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel) a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform...
js212 3y ago
[flagged]
- fahhem 3y ago
  This is a common talking point, but Israel never once offered a real two state solution. All offers had a "poison pill" that they knew would get rejected, but they offered it for this exact talking point, to say they offered peace. If you look up the actual offers and the negotiations around them, you'll see none of them even abided by international law, so they would have been illegal anyway.

nvm0n2 3y ago

> Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine No it is not. Israel got its own people out of the Gaza strip years ago and hasn't let them back in since. Israel supplies Gaza with water and electricity because Hamas prefers to spend its resources on building tunnel networks and rockets instead of power stations and water treatment works. It is also militarily superior and has nuclear weapons. If they actually decided to "annihilate" Gaza it would be a smoking pile of glass tomorrow, as the military capability is there. > an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry The IDF wear uniforms and are easily identifiable. > Doing nothing is not an option They have lots of options, including making peace with Israel. Step 1 would be to replace the government committed to its destruction, with one that is willing to talk instead of launch rockets. But the Palestinians seem to support the existing strategy.

covercash 3y ago
> They have lots of options, including making peace with Israel. Step 1 would be to replace the government committed to its destruction, with one that is willing to talk instead of launch rockets. How’s that working out for the Palestinians in the West Bank?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Obviously better than the Palestinians in Gaza? Is that in question?
  - evancox100 3y ago
    I mean, the actual material living conditions in the West Bank might be better, but don’t the Gazans at least have some form of sovereignty over their land? My understanding is that there is no real independent West Bank Palestinian government that exercises security over the land and the people on it. At least not in favor of the Palestinians.
    - runarberg 3y ago
      West Bank also has to suffer constant raids from the IDF in addition to settler violence. Over 100 people had already died in such raids before oct. 7 just this year. They’re land has been partitioned, there are military checkpoints they must go through when the travel inside the West Bank. Many Palestinians are arrested on a regular basis, sometimes without any charges (administrative detention). Settler violence is also a pretty big deal there, it ranges from vandalism, theft, murder and terrorism. This often goes unpunished and sometimes the IDF even helps settlers steal houses and land from West Bank Palestinians. Note that settlers may even include very conservative Floridians who just moved to “Israel” and feel entitled to a house owned and occupied by a Palestinian family.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Would you rather be living as a Palestinian in Gaza or the West Bank today? I think the answer to that is very clear.
        runarberg 3y ago
        West Bank for sure. However this is a false dilemma. You are presenting bow to your occupiers and live under oppression, vs. resist your occupiers and suffer genocidal violence. As a Palestinian these may be your only choices, neither are good. But one is obviously better in the short term. However there is another party to this dilemma, the occupier them selves. They also have a choice not to engage in genocidal violence upon resistance or oppress and colonize upon non-resistance. They have a choice to acknowledge and recognize the sovereignty, to decolonize, to integrate and grant equal rights, etc. The dilemma problem is a damned of you do and damned if you don’t kind. It doesn’t matter what you pick. Your oppressor is the one that needs to pick a different path.

nlh 3y ago

I know the sibling commenter mentioned this, but it bears repeating just for emphasis: > Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine This is categorically false.

ah27182 3y ago
It really isnt. You would be blind to think otherwise. “I am the only one who will prevent a Palestinian state in Gaza and [the West Bank] after the war” - Netanyahu
ignoramous 3y ago
> This is categorically false If the people of the only democracy in the middle east didn't believe this, they'd not have elected Likud to power for 2 decades and counting. The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel) a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform...

js212 3y ago

[flagged]

fahhem 3y ago
This is a common talking point, but Israel never once offered a real two state solution. All offers had a "poison pill" that they knew would get rejected, but they offered it for this exact talking point, to say they offered peace. If you look up the actual offers and the negotiations around them, you'll see none of them even abided by international law, so they would have been illegal anyway.