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It is clearly a charged topic and while you did a good job setting the tone, it clear that moderating this discussion will be a daunting task for anyone. I am

It is clearly a charged topic and while you did a good job setting the tone, it clear that moderating this discussion will be a daunting task for anyone. I am already seeing the antisemitic comments calling Jews colonizers, stealing land from indigenous people for 75 years. The one-liners or single-sentence zingers lack context or, often, truth. I do appreciate comments from people living in that area -- what their lives were and are before and during this conflict. I do wish that instead of this charged subject on HN, instead an article discussing the history of this land and people living on it. History of empires, conquests, displacements, wars, attacks. Etymology of the names and Meaning of terms that are being used by both sides. * What did Zionism mean in 19th and 20th centuries? What does it mean in 21st century? * What does Anti-Zionism mean? * Where does the word Palestine come from? * What really happened in 1948? * What happened to Gaza Strip under Egyptian rule from 1948 to 1967? * What happened to West Bank under Jordanian rule from 1948 to 1967? Discussing history of what happened and what did not would be less explosive and more productive use of great minds on HN, in my opinion.

cultofmetatron 3y ago
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- vladgur 3y ago
  This post is barely coherent with a wall of YouTube links pointing to videos across multiple subjects including the settlement policies(which I don’t agree with), claims of poor treatment by released Palestinian prisoners who were in prison for amongst other things stabbing random Jews, as well as other subjects that are all over the place. Let’s try to have a discussion while focusing on one subject at a time. One subject that stands out is you calling Jews colonizers. It’s indisputable that the Jewish history in the area of modern day Israel goes back thousands of years. These areas were in fact colonized by Romans, then Ottomans, then by the British. Many Jews were expelled during these colonizations. The act of migration of Jews back to what is present day Israel in 1948 was NOT colonization but a return of indigenous people to their homeland. Words have meanings. Colonization means something. Jews return to Israel was not it. Apartheid means something. Israeli Arabs enjoy the same rights as non-Arab Israelis, they serve in the government, Supreme Court and even the IDF if they choose to. Israel is not an apartheid state because it does not segregate its citizens by race/ethnicity. > yes becuse nothing is more important the opions of 19tha nd 20th century white populated countries when it comes to the affairs of people in their coloies In spite of sounding fairly racist, you are historically correct - opinions of white populated countries - Britain and France - as well as the League of Nations - were in fact important because in 1920s they helped sketch the borders of future Arab nation-states we such as Kingdom of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, etc and ultimately led to emergence of Arab nationalism that shaped these Middle East countries. If you invalidate UN partition of British Mandate Palestine by saying “oh British people promised to us”, then you will have to invalidate most of Arab Nation states in the Arabian Peninsula. You also invalidate the sovereignty of both India and Pakistan. > I think it’s best if all the european jews in israel went back to their respective countries. What about the Mizrahi Israelis of middle eastern & North African origin? They constitute close to 70% of Israeli Jews. What about non-Mizrahi Jews who were born in Israel and who have no cultural or ethnic connections to European countries you speak of. What do you propose be done to them.
  - cultofmetatron 3y ago
    > This post is barely coherent with a wall of YouTube links pointing to videos across multiple subjects whats barely coherent about this? Ive provided context as well as links to reputable sources (journalists on the ground documenting whats goig on) backing them up yet you casually dismiss them like I'm posting videos to flat earther vids. its doesn't take much for an unbiased observer to realize that what zionists are doing is not right. Please examine your own biases and at least watch them. >The act of migration of Jews back to what is present day Israel in 1948 was NOT colonization but a return of indigenous people to their homeland. and what of the people living there? was it really necessary to force them to relocate "trail of tears" style? we are taught in history books that it wa sa tradjedy on native american peoples. how is this any different? >These areas were in fact colonized by Romans, then Ottomans, then by the British. Many Jews were expelled during these colonizations. and they are welcome back there if their intention is to peacefully coexist. the issue is that there is an occupation. the rights of the palestinians are suppressed in order to maintain a far right ethnostate. > Israeli Arabs enjoy the same rights as non-Arab Israelis, and palestinians in the west bank are subject to something very akin to apartheid. Please tell me why it was necessary to have hundres of children as young as 10 years old doing prison time in israeli miliary courts? how does that not immediately light up a red flag in the back of your mind that something isn't right? > If you invalidate UN partition of British Mandate Palestine by saying “oh British people promised to us”, then you will have to invalidate most of Arab Nation states in the Arabian Peninsula. You also invalidate the sovereignty of both India and Pakistan. india and pakistan agreed to that rift. the division between muslims and hindus was largely manufactured by the british as part of their means of keeping colonies under their control. I have plenty of criticisms about modhi and his far right hindu nationalist mindset bit thats goign off topic. > What about the Mizrahi Israelis of middle eastern & North African origin? They constitute close to 70% of Israeli Jews. Im not opposed to european jews living in the region. I'm opposed to the occupation and subjugation of the palestinian people. let them return to live in israel and grant ALL of them citizenship and right to due process that is afforded to israeli citizens. make the israeli government a place where both paletinians AND israelis can pursue justice and you might find peace is within reach. Hamas is a terrorist organization. they are perfectly fine killing civilians to achieve their goal. if we establish that the willingness to harm civilians in pursuit of miltary advantage is the mark of a terrorist, please tell me how the IDF is any different here? I've already sent you several youtube links from journalistic sources highlighting the human rights atrocities of the IDF as well as the human rights violations of israeli settlers in the west bank against palestinians. most recent of which being a mass killing in a school involving literal children. People turn to terrorism when there are no avenues to justice. This is exactly what netinyahu wants. force palestinians to need hamas so that he can use (fear of ) hamas to perpeuate his far right regime. peace could be achieved fairly easily if it was an option the far right of israel wanted. but that would mean accepting paletsinans with open arms and making them first class citizens alongside jews in israel. But that gets in the way of his aspirations for an ethnostate.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  > -> reposting this since my previous one was flagged You deserve a flag for this behaviour alone.
  - cultofmetatron 3y ago
    there's definitely a subgroup of people on here trying actively to suppress discussion of a US taxfund payer subsidized genocide going on right now. if me bringing that to light bothers you, well, I'm not sorry.
cultofmetatron 3y ago
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- vladgur 3y ago
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  - cultofmetatron 3y ago
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  - cultofmetatron 3y ago
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    - vladgur 3y ago
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      - cultofmetatron 3y ago
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cultofmetatron 3y ago

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vladgur 3y ago
This post is barely coherent with a wall of YouTube links pointing to videos across multiple subjects including the settlement policies(which I don’t agree with), claims of poor treatment by released Palestinian prisoners who were in prison for amongst other things stabbing random Jews, as well as other subjects that are all over the place. Let’s try to have a discussion while focusing on one subject at a time. One subject that stands out is you calling Jews colonizers. It’s indisputable that the Jewish history in the area of modern day Israel goes back thousands of years. These areas were in fact colonized by Romans, then Ottomans, then by the British. Many Jews were expelled during these colonizations. The act of migration of Jews back to what is present day Israel in 1948 was NOT colonization but a return of indigenous people to their homeland. Words have meanings. Colonization means something. Jews return to Israel was not it. Apartheid means something. Israeli Arabs enjoy the same rights as non-Arab Israelis, they serve in the government, Supreme Court and even the IDF if they choose to. Israel is not an apartheid state because it does not segregate its citizens by race/ethnicity. > yes becuse nothing is more important the opions of 19tha nd 20th century white populated countries when it comes to the affairs of people in their coloies In spite of sounding fairly racist, you are historically correct - opinions of white populated countries - Britain and France - as well as the League of Nations - were in fact important because in 1920s they helped sketch the borders of future Arab nation-states we such as Kingdom of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, etc and ultimately led to emergence of Arab nationalism that shaped these Middle East countries. If you invalidate UN partition of British Mandate Palestine by saying “oh British people promised to us”, then you will have to invalidate most of Arab Nation states in the Arabian Peninsula. You also invalidate the sovereignty of both India and Pakistan. > I think it’s best if all the european jews in israel went back to their respective countries. What about the Mizrahi Israelis of middle eastern & North African origin? They constitute close to 70% of Israeli Jews. What about non-Mizrahi Jews who were born in Israel and who have no cultural or ethnic connections to European countries you speak of. What do you propose be done to them.
- cultofmetatron 3y ago
  > This post is barely coherent with a wall of YouTube links pointing to videos across multiple subjects whats barely coherent about this? Ive provided context as well as links to reputable sources (journalists on the ground documenting whats goig on) backing them up yet you casually dismiss them like I'm posting videos to flat earther vids. its doesn't take much for an unbiased observer to realize that what zionists are doing is not right. Please examine your own biases and at least watch them. >The act of migration of Jews back to what is present day Israel in 1948 was NOT colonization but a return of indigenous people to their homeland. and what of the people living there? was it really necessary to force them to relocate "trail of tears" style? we are taught in history books that it wa sa tradjedy on native american peoples. how is this any different? >These areas were in fact colonized by Romans, then Ottomans, then by the British. Many Jews were expelled during these colonizations. and they are welcome back there if their intention is to peacefully coexist. the issue is that there is an occupation. the rights of the palestinians are suppressed in order to maintain a far right ethnostate. > Israeli Arabs enjoy the same rights as non-Arab Israelis, and palestinians in the west bank are subject to something very akin to apartheid. Please tell me why it was necessary to have hundres of children as young as 10 years old doing prison time in israeli miliary courts? how does that not immediately light up a red flag in the back of your mind that something isn't right? > If you invalidate UN partition of British Mandate Palestine by saying “oh British people promised to us”, then you will have to invalidate most of Arab Nation states in the Arabian Peninsula. You also invalidate the sovereignty of both India and Pakistan. india and pakistan agreed to that rift. the division between muslims and hindus was largely manufactured by the british as part of their means of keeping colonies under their control. I have plenty of criticisms about modhi and his far right hindu nationalist mindset bit thats goign off topic. > What about the Mizrahi Israelis of middle eastern & North African origin? They constitute close to 70% of Israeli Jews. Im not opposed to european jews living in the region. I'm opposed to the occupation and subjugation of the palestinian people. let them return to live in israel and grant ALL of them citizenship and right to due process that is afforded to israeli citizens. make the israeli government a place where both paletinians AND israelis can pursue justice and you might find peace is within reach. Hamas is a terrorist organization. they are perfectly fine killing civilians to achieve their goal. if we establish that the willingness to harm civilians in pursuit of miltary advantage is the mark of a terrorist, please tell me how the IDF is any different here? I've already sent you several youtube links from journalistic sources highlighting the human rights atrocities of the IDF as well as the human rights violations of israeli settlers in the west bank against palestinians. most recent of which being a mass killing in a school involving literal children. People turn to terrorism when there are no avenues to justice. This is exactly what netinyahu wants. force palestinians to need hamas so that he can use (fear of ) hamas to perpeuate his far right regime. peace could be achieved fairly easily if it was an option the far right of israel wanted. but that would mean accepting paletsinans with open arms and making them first class citizens alongside jews in israel. But that gets in the way of his aspirations for an ethnostate.
Tainnor 3y ago
> -> reposting this since my previous one was flagged You deserve a flag for this behaviour alone.
- cultofmetatron 3y ago
  there's definitely a subgroup of people on here trying actively to suppress discussion of a US taxfund payer subsidized genocide going on right now. if me bringing that to light bothers you, well, I'm not sorry.

cultofmetatron 3y ago

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vladgur 3y ago
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- cultofmetatron 3y ago
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- cultofmetatron 3y ago
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