5 ms·

Hasbro is essentially upside down, with huge losses across all their brands being subsidized by enormous growth from their subsidiary Wizards of the Coast. Even

Hasbro is essentially upside down, with huge losses across all their brands being subsidized by enormous growth from their subsidiary Wizards of the Coast. Even with that growth, they are significantly down. There was a big investor push recently (led by Alta Fox) to get Hasbro to spin WotC out into an independent company [0], which failed. The big concern being that forcing growth on those properties (Magic: the Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons) to continue to support failed strategies with legacy properties could risk ruining those properties through mismanagement for short-term gains. I really don't know where Hasbro goes from here. I don't think the toy market will ever recover, and the board game world has completely passed by properties like Monopoly. Chris Cocks, the CEO is the former head of WotC, so I'm hoping there is some level of understanding of stewardship of the WotC properties, but I'm really not confident. Even the recent D&D movie was disappointing from a business perspective (although surprisingly wonderful for fans). They also have a huge success in Baldur's Gate 3, although it is also disappointing from a monetization perspective. Even those recent lukewarm wins are within the WotC umbrella. [0] - https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/hasbro-wins-wizards-of-the-coast-spin-off https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/hasbro-wins-wizards-of-the-coas...

TheCaptain4815 3y ago
BG3 was disappointing from a monetization perspective? How on earth, it sold over 20 million copies in less than a year!
- entropicdrifter 3y ago
  It's a one-time purchase, not a subscription. Hasbro's income from BG3 pales in comparison to MTG boosters from this year alone, let alone the income over time.
  - Macha 3y ago
    It's also clear from Hasbro's own statements they didn't expect it to do so well. Maybe they thought it would have sold like a Divinity 3 and as such gave Larian a better deal on the IP licensing than they think they could have got if they'd known in advance how well it would sell.
  - heelix 3y ago
    BG3 was the first game I've paid full price for, since Doom 3. Almost any of the 'modern' game sales concepts - game passes, ridiculous DLC, loot boxes, etc - have me waiting years after release for the GOTY version at a heavy, heavy discount. I would buy the heck out of another DnD game like BG. Shame anyone would look at that and say meh, more battlefield.
Keyframe 3y ago
Eons ago, when I was in TV/movies business, I spoke with a prominent Forgotten Realms book author (if not _the_ author) about a certain book series he wrote that I thought it would make a fantastic TV series (in a world before netflix had their own production) and he nodded in agreement. I said let's make it it happen, let's warm up parties on both ends (I'm on production side, he would be on property side).. basically cold shower was that, hiw he told me, they (writers) were hired to write pieces for Hasbro and Hasbro didn't want to let go of anything (as in control) nor would it do anything on their own. So much potential, such a large world, and nothing. Blizzard spun up large business around basically 1% of what they're sitting on top off. Toys can be their sideshow. Alas..
- faitswulff 3y ago
  Was it R.A. Salvatore? I would love to watch Drizzt Do'Urden on the big screen.
  - yurishimo 3y ago
    I think it has to be. Nothing else makes sense. On the bright side, Brandon Sanderson is moving full steam ahead growing his brands into fully fledged productions. He has been a huge help in bringing Wheel of Time season 2 back in line for what fans want, and he's using that experience to begin re-writing some of his series' into TV scripts. While the franchises of our youth might be approaching the EoL, the future still looks bright for epic fantasy fans!
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    aw, you beat me to typing this out. I've only read them once so I suspect a massive wave of nostalgia.
  - bitexploder 3y ago
    Ed Greenwood was also quite popular. And a couple other authors wrote a number of pieces for the Forgotten Realms series.
  - Keyframe 3y ago
lotsofpulp 3y ago
The D&D movie is on Amazon Prime, and is probably the most fun movie I watched this year. I have zero knowledge or interest in D&D.
- parl_match 3y ago
  Call it poor marketing, or a concept that just didn't resonate with cover-judgers, but a common perception of it by those who didn't watch it is that it is a cash-in kid's B-movie. Some pap you get for free on a streaming service. Disappointing that perception exists.
  - tapoxi 3y ago
    I liked the D&D movie, though it definitely felt budget with some awful CG at times. For some reason, call it mid-pandemic boredom, my wife and I saw Hasbro's GI Joe film "Snake Eyes" in theaters. That was pretty awful.
    - floren 3y ago
      The best parts about the D&D movie were the practical effects, which were obviously effects but obviously practical and therefore charming.
- teddyh 3y ago
  Warning: There is more than one “D&D Movie”: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dungeons_%26_Dragons_(film_series)&oldid=1186515137 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dungeons_%26_Drag...> According to most people, the one from 2023 is the good one.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    The first one was ... not so inspiring ... It had some top-shelf actors, but the "acting" was a bit ... over the top, shall we say. The next two were a bit less inspiring.
  - 3y ago
overstay8930 3y ago
Hasbro deserves their fate, they sold their IP to the highest bidder and they could have made a killing off of any one of their properties if they actually tried. Imagine if they made good games, they could have locked down the most lucrative market for a company of its size and type.
VirusNewbie 3y ago
I think MtG and D&D have a lot of potential though. My four year old son found a "search and find" D&D book for kids at the store, and it is now one of his favorite books. He loves the kid friendly D&D products, and will presumably continue to be a fan. Unlike other huge IP franchises that are spear headed by a single set of characters or story, D&D has an enormous world with no single focus that makes it easily adaptable to various media and spin offs. My son is now enthralled with the various dragons, monsters, and the idea of heroes looking for treasure. I hope they continue to make toys, games, minis and media for all age groups!
bhouston 3y ago
> toy market will ever recover, Also people are having less kids these days -- for better or worse (I think worse) -- so people have less need for toys. Also kids love just paying video games on tablets and PCs, so also less need for physical toys.
speeder 3y ago
I am a MTG player. Also I used to own my own game business. I am not sure Chris Cocks will preserve wotc. First an interesting fact: one of the people pushing Alta Fox to meddle with Hasbro is a guy that was MTG player in the 90s. Now about Chris Cocks: after he became CEO of WotC, the company did grow but making lots of short term focused things, like ditching the Pro scene, spamming Commander and Modern products (and I am a heavy Commander player...) spamming foils and other collectible crap, and reducing good promotional prizes. Also they ditched some good products to offer complete crap after he became CEO, for example the holiday boxes were wildly useful and today they are crazy expensive because how useful and cool they are, if you find them. But lots and lots of stores has the Chris era gift products stuck on shelves collecting dust. Then after he became Hasbro CEO things got somehow worse, like the OGL stupidity, 35th anniversary product that is ludicrously expensive, selling pre-sale products on Amazon official WotC store so cheap it undercut stores so badly they lost money.
- tonfreed 3y ago
  I'm a D&D player, and have definitely noticed a drop in quality of 5e products to the point where I just wasn't interested in buying anything after witchlight. Being a DM, I slurped up every book to steal ideas and encounters that I could use with little effort. My group also all had the same visceral reaction to the OGL kerfuffle early this year and moved to Pathfinder 2e. I had a lot of fun with 5e, but it had already grown stale for me before all of the madness and short sighted decisions anyway.
happytiger 3y ago
They just need to innovate to keep up with entertainment changes, and they haven’t. They’ve become crystallized in brand management and focused on very traditional and impotent MBA-lead strategies to “monetize the portfolio” and completely missed the chance at gaming innovation leadership. They should make WotC’s management in charge of the overall company. I had a chance to work with them extensively on MTG internet properties and they are a cut above most management teams. Chris is an interesting mix and as long as he makes long-term choices instead of them plethora of short term profit driven choices he’s been criticized for he is capable and thoughtful. I don’t think we’ve seen what he can do as he has always been beholden to the parent corporation’s culture.
slimsag 3y ago
Hasbro needed to, and failed to (imo), transition into selling higher-end luxury toys for adults with nostalgia - and focus less on kids. With the exception of DnD, everything else Hasbro-owned has failed to capture such an audience I think. Their toys are generally priced ~$25 or less. Higher-end variants of their toys are not by Hasbro, but rather by other companies. Want a high-end nerf gun? You're going to Dart Zone, not Hasbro. On Amazon their toys are competing on the same footing with the cheaper (often better) knock-off brands. Their board games are dated and haven't really evolved. Monopoly is $15 while Catan is $100, /r/HotWheels collectors want old cars not the cheap new ones, etc. By comparison, brands like Lego have evolved, are insanely expensive (>$100) and I constantly see adults with disposable income purchasing them en-mass while they're not really affordable as kids toys anymore.
- wnevets 3y ago
  > Hasbro needed to, and failed to (imo), transition into selling higher-end luxury toys for adults with nostalgia - and focus less on kids. Isn't Pulse/HasLab that? For example they have a $300 Ghost Trap and P.K.E. Meter. [1] https://hasbropulse.com/collections/haslab/products/ghostbusters-plasma-series-haslab-two-in-the-box-ghost-trap-and-p-k-e-meter https://hasbropulse.com/collections/haslab/products/ghostbus...
- hilux 3y ago
  Lego is a fascinating case study. They've gone entirely corporate - so many of their expensive new products are branded partnerships. I guess it had to be done. There must be an HBS case study, or several, about this.
  - pfranz 3y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if branded partnerships have minimal profit and are mostly intended to keep a premium market perception. Lego was pretty famous for doing branded partnerships and still struggling [1]. This lead them to come up with more of their own IP like Bionicle and Ninjago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionicle#Concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionicle#Concept
  - 3y ago
thereddaikon 3y ago
They burned a lot of goodwill WOTC had by pushing them harder and harder to carry the rest of the company. A move last year to change the terms of the OGL lead to massive community backlash. They are lucky Baldur's gate has been such a hit and GOTY material. If it wasn't for that a lot of fans would still have a bad taste in their mouth in regards to DnD.
hiisukun 3y ago
As someone who enjoyed board games for a little while, while playing with a group of friends on and off, I will say I was taken aback by just how separate these two categories are: * hasbro board games * enjoyable board games In fact, I would say that hasbro, and especially monopoly, are responsible for a huge chunk of people thinking all board games are terrible. When I was younger, I never understood why they didn't use their large corporate resources to either purchase or create some better games.. But nowadays I realise they are more like a toy and branding company - it's just not how they work.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
I like toys and I have children, so I got some experience buying toys. Hasbro stuff is just garbage quality. I'm sure there is a problem with my adult taste expecting more, but the plastic they use is horrible at touch. That's about it, I just don't buy garbage stuff. We live in a parallel toy world where every toy I had was substantially better quality then my children. Really annoying. I often have to buy model stuff to give them decent toys (and those break!).

TheCaptain4815 3y ago

BG3 was disappointing from a monetization perspective? How on earth, it sold over 20 million copies in less than a year!

entropicdrifter 3y ago
It's a one-time purchase, not a subscription. Hasbro's income from BG3 pales in comparison to MTG boosters from this year alone, let alone the income over time.
- Macha 3y ago
  It's also clear from Hasbro's own statements they didn't expect it to do so well. Maybe they thought it would have sold like a Divinity 3 and as such gave Larian a better deal on the IP licensing than they think they could have got if they'd known in advance how well it would sell.
- heelix 3y ago
  BG3 was the first game I've paid full price for, since Doom 3. Almost any of the 'modern' game sales concepts - game passes, ridiculous DLC, loot boxes, etc - have me waiting years after release for the GOTY version at a heavy, heavy discount. I would buy the heck out of another DnD game like BG. Shame anyone would look at that and say meh, more battlefield.

Keyframe 3y ago

Eons ago, when I was in TV/movies business, I spoke with a prominent Forgotten Realms book author (if not _the_ author) about a certain book series he wrote that I thought it would make a fantastic TV series (in a world before netflix had their own production) and he nodded in agreement. I said let's make it it happen, let's warm up parties on both ends (I'm on production side, he would be on property side).. basically cold shower was that, hiw he told me, they (writers) were hired to write pieces for Hasbro and Hasbro didn't want to let go of anything (as in control) nor would it do anything on their own. So much potential, such a large world, and nothing. Blizzard spun up large business around basically 1% of what they're sitting on top off. Toys can be their sideshow. Alas..

faitswulff 3y ago
Was it R.A. Salvatore? I would love to watch Drizzt Do'Urden on the big screen.
- yurishimo 3y ago
  I think it has to be. Nothing else makes sense. On the bright side, Brandon Sanderson is moving full steam ahead growing his brands into fully fledged productions. He has been a huge help in bringing Wheel of Time season 2 back in line for what fans want, and he's using that experience to begin re-writing some of his series' into TV scripts. While the franchises of our youth might be approaching the EoL, the future still looks bright for epic fantasy fans!
- Eumenes 3y ago
  aw, you beat me to typing this out. I've only read them once so I suspect a massive wave of nostalgia.
- bitexploder 3y ago
  Ed Greenwood was also quite popular. And a couple other authors wrote a number of pieces for the Forgotten Realms series.
- Keyframe 3y ago

lotsofpulp 3y ago

The D&D movie is on Amazon Prime, and is probably the most fun movie I watched this year. I have zero knowledge or interest in D&D.

parl_match 3y ago
Call it poor marketing, or a concept that just didn't resonate with cover-judgers, but a common perception of it by those who didn't watch it is that it is a cash-in kid's B-movie. Some pap you get for free on a streaming service. Disappointing that perception exists.
- tapoxi 3y ago
  I liked the D&D movie, though it definitely felt budget with some awful CG at times. For some reason, call it mid-pandemic boredom, my wife and I saw Hasbro's GI Joe film "Snake Eyes" in theaters. That was pretty awful.
  - floren 3y ago
    The best parts about the D&D movie were the practical effects, which were obviously effects but obviously practical and therefore charming.
teddyh 3y ago
Warning: There is more than one “D&D Movie”: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dungeons_%26_Dragons_(film_series)&oldid=1186515137 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dungeons_%26_Drag...> According to most people, the one from 2023 is the good one.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  The first one was ... not so inspiring ... It had some top-shelf actors, but the "acting" was a bit ... over the top, shall we say. The next two were a bit less inspiring.
- 3y ago

overstay8930 3y ago

Hasbro deserves their fate, they sold their IP to the highest bidder and they could have made a killing off of any one of their properties if they actually tried. Imagine if they made good games, they could have locked down the most lucrative market for a company of its size and type.

VirusNewbie 3y ago

I think MtG and D&D have a lot of potential though. My four year old son found a "search and find" D&D book for kids at the store, and it is now one of his favorite books. He loves the kid friendly D&D products, and will presumably continue to be a fan. Unlike other huge IP franchises that are spear headed by a single set of characters or story, D&D has an enormous world with no single focus that makes it easily adaptable to various media and spin offs. My son is now enthralled with the various dragons, monsters, and the idea of heroes looking for treasure. I hope they continue to make toys, games, minis and media for all age groups!

bhouston 3y ago

> toy market will ever recover, Also people are having less kids these days -- for better or worse (I think worse) -- so people have less need for toys. Also kids love just paying video games on tablets and PCs, so also less need for physical toys.

speeder 3y ago

I am a MTG player. Also I used to own my own game business. I am not sure Chris Cocks will preserve wotc. First an interesting fact: one of the people pushing Alta Fox to meddle with Hasbro is a guy that was MTG player in the 90s. Now about Chris Cocks: after he became CEO of WotC, the company did grow but making lots of short term focused things, like ditching the Pro scene, spamming Commander and Modern products (and I am a heavy Commander player...) spamming foils and other collectible crap, and reducing good promotional prizes. Also they ditched some good products to offer complete crap after he became CEO, for example the holiday boxes were wildly useful and today they are crazy expensive because how useful and cool they are, if you find them. But lots and lots of stores has the Chris era gift products stuck on shelves collecting dust. Then after he became Hasbro CEO things got somehow worse, like the OGL stupidity, 35th anniversary product that is ludicrously expensive, selling pre-sale products on Amazon official WotC store so cheap it undercut stores so badly they lost money.

tonfreed 3y ago
I'm a D&D player, and have definitely noticed a drop in quality of 5e products to the point where I just wasn't interested in buying anything after witchlight. Being a DM, I slurped up every book to steal ideas and encounters that I could use with little effort. My group also all had the same visceral reaction to the OGL kerfuffle early this year and moved to Pathfinder 2e. I had a lot of fun with 5e, but it had already grown stale for me before all of the madness and short sighted decisions anyway.

happytiger 3y ago

They just need to innovate to keep up with entertainment changes, and they haven’t. They’ve become crystallized in brand management and focused on very traditional and impotent MBA-lead strategies to “monetize the portfolio” and completely missed the chance at gaming innovation leadership. They should make WotC’s management in charge of the overall company. I had a chance to work with them extensively on MTG internet properties and they are a cut above most management teams. Chris is an interesting mix and as long as he makes long-term choices instead of them plethora of short term profit driven choices he’s been criticized for he is capable and thoughtful. I don’t think we’ve seen what he can do as he has always been beholden to the parent corporation’s culture.

slimsag 3y ago

Hasbro needed to, and failed to (imo), transition into selling higher-end luxury toys for adults with nostalgia - and focus less on kids. With the exception of DnD, everything else Hasbro-owned has failed to capture such an audience I think. Their toys are generally priced ~$25 or less. Higher-end variants of their toys are not by Hasbro, but rather by other companies. Want a high-end nerf gun? You're going to Dart Zone, not Hasbro. On Amazon their toys are competing on the same footing with the cheaper (often better) knock-off brands. Their board games are dated and haven't really evolved. Monopoly is $15 while Catan is $100, /r/HotWheels collectors want old cars not the cheap new ones, etc. By comparison, brands like Lego have evolved, are insanely expensive (>$100) and I constantly see adults with disposable income purchasing them en-mass while they're not really affordable as kids toys anymore.

wnevets 3y ago
> Hasbro needed to, and failed to (imo), transition into selling higher-end luxury toys for adults with nostalgia - and focus less on kids. Isn't Pulse/HasLab that? For example they have a $300 Ghost Trap and P.K.E. Meter. [1] https://hasbropulse.com/collections/haslab/products/ghostbusters-plasma-series-haslab-two-in-the-box-ghost-trap-and-p-k-e-meter https://hasbropulse.com/collections/haslab/products/ghostbus...
hilux 3y ago
Lego is a fascinating case study. They've gone entirely corporate - so many of their expensive new products are branded partnerships. I guess it had to be done. There must be an HBS case study, or several, about this.
- pfranz 3y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if branded partnerships have minimal profit and are mostly intended to keep a premium market perception. Lego was pretty famous for doing branded partnerships and still struggling [1]. This lead them to come up with more of their own IP like Bionicle and Ninjago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionicle#Concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionicle#Concept
- 3y ago

thereddaikon 3y ago

They burned a lot of goodwill WOTC had by pushing them harder and harder to carry the rest of the company. A move last year to change the terms of the OGL lead to massive community backlash. They are lucky Baldur's gate has been such a hit and GOTY material. If it wasn't for that a lot of fans would still have a bad taste in their mouth in regards to DnD.

hiisukun 3y ago

As someone who enjoyed board games for a little while, while playing with a group of friends on and off, I will say I was taken aback by just how separate these two categories are: * hasbro board games * enjoyable board games In fact, I would say that hasbro, and especially monopoly, are responsible for a huge chunk of people thinking all board games are terrible. When I was younger, I never understood why they didn't use their large corporate resources to either purchase or create some better games.. But nowadays I realise they are more like a toy and branding company - it's just not how they work.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago

I like toys and I have children, so I got some experience buying toys. Hasbro stuff is just garbage quality. I'm sure there is a problem with my adult taste expecting more, but the plastic they use is horrible at touch. That's about it, I just don't buy garbage stuff. We live in a parallel toy world where every toy I had was substantially better quality then my children. Really annoying. I often have to buy model stuff to give them decent toys (and those break!).