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And some support the war Hamas rages despite the effect on the Palestinian people/civilians. Is that an other other side? This is complex, and we really can't

And some support the war Hamas rages despite the effect on the Palestinian people/civilians. Is that an other other side? This is complex, and we really can't describe this conflict as just having two sides.

ido 3y ago
Just like some Israelis support expelling all Palestinians to Egypt and Jordan and settling these territories with Israelis. The only "side" that's not wrong (IMO) is the one that condemns violence against civilians and is for peace and the two state solution, this "side" exists among both Israelis and Palestinians (but is the minority for both).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
xg15 3y ago
Then how would you refer to the different groups/entities and/or populations involved in this conflict? I'd say there is of course a range of opinions and different narratives on both sides (from from actively seeking coexistence to humanitarian to pragmatic to nationalist to religious fundamentalist to having a deep personal hate for the other side). Then you have all kinds of different groups, factions and third parties with their own allegiances and motivation. However all of those pieces arrange themselves around a central conflict which does have exactly two sides in my opinion, which are the Israeli and Palestine people, respectively their claims to live on the land. You can see this rather easily by observing which groups view each other as mortal enemies and which merely as a nuisance. There are - thankfully - lots of people trying to bridge the divide and not aligning themselves only with one side. This is where we all should be headed, but it doesn't change the fact that currently there are sides.
- whycome 3y ago
  > However all of those pieces arrange themselves around a central conflict which does have exactly two sides in my opinion, which are the Israeli and Palestine people, respectively their claims to live on the land. We're talking here about the conflict that has happened as a result of the Hamas attacks on October 7. Take a look at how CNN vs BBC vs The Guardian categorize the conflict. CNN describes it as the "Israel-Hamas War" (Reuters similarly uses "Israel and Hamas at war") while the BBC and Guardian list it as the "Israel-Gaza war" (and I'm pretty sure the Guardian previously used the same terminology as CNN). And you've described it as "Israeli people-Palestine people". https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-13-23/index.html https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-ga... https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt
  - xg15 3y ago
    I was referring to the entire 100 year long middle east conflict, of which the Israel-Hamas war is a part.
xupybd 3y ago
Every person has a unique perspective in human interactions, implying diverse viewpoints. Discussions often generalize these complexities, as comprehending every nuance is impossible for one individual
yieldcrv 3y ago
speaking of complex, half of the reason I absolutely laughed at the call for statements and the idea that “your silence is noted” here in the US is because I didn't want my Lebanese and Egyptian friends calling for statements too. It wasnt clear if they and their families would be roped in a few weeks with conscription or not-discriminate-enough bombing. Its even funnier when that silence is interpreted as wishing for a pogrom, like, see a therapist? If there is 1,000 years to support that view of every society turning against you, the common denominator isn’t us!

ido 3y ago

Just like some Israelis support expelling all Palestinians to Egypt and Jordan and settling these territories with Israelis. The only "side" that's not wrong (IMO) is the one that condemns violence against civilians and is for peace and the two state solution, this "side" exists among both Israelis and Palestinians (but is the minority for both).

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

xg15 3y ago

Then how would you refer to the different groups/entities and/or populations involved in this conflict? I'd say there is of course a range of opinions and different narratives on both sides (from from actively seeking coexistence to humanitarian to pragmatic to nationalist to religious fundamentalist to having a deep personal hate for the other side). Then you have all kinds of different groups, factions and third parties with their own allegiances and motivation. However all of those pieces arrange themselves around a central conflict which does have exactly two sides in my opinion, which are the Israeli and Palestine people, respectively their claims to live on the land. You can see this rather easily by observing which groups view each other as mortal enemies and which merely as a nuisance. There are - thankfully - lots of people trying to bridge the divide and not aligning themselves only with one side. This is where we all should be headed, but it doesn't change the fact that currently there are sides.

whycome 3y ago
> However all of those pieces arrange themselves around a central conflict which does have exactly two sides in my opinion, which are the Israeli and Palestine people, respectively their claims to live on the land. We're talking here about the conflict that has happened as a result of the Hamas attacks on October 7. Take a look at how CNN vs BBC vs The Guardian categorize the conflict. CNN describes it as the "Israel-Hamas War" (Reuters similarly uses "Israel and Hamas at war") while the BBC and Guardian list it as the "Israel-Gaza war" (and I'm pretty sure the Guardian previously used the same terminology as CNN). And you've described it as "Israeli people-Palestine people". https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-13-23/index.html https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-ga... https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt
- xg15 3y ago
  I was referring to the entire 100 year long middle east conflict, of which the Israel-Hamas war is a part.

xupybd 3y ago

Every person has a unique perspective in human interactions, implying diverse viewpoints. Discussions often generalize these complexities, as comprehending every nuance is impossible for one individual

yieldcrv 3y ago

speaking of complex, half of the reason I absolutely laughed at the call for statements and the idea that “your silence is noted” here in the US is because I didn't want my Lebanese and Egyptian friends calling for statements too. It wasnt clear if they and their families would be roped in a few weeks with conscription or not-discriminate-enough bombing. Its even funnier when that silence is interpreted as wishing for a pogrom, like, see a therapist? If there is 1,000 years to support that view of every society turning against you, the common denominator isn’t us!