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> I've been in touch with HNers on the other side of the conflict as well This thinking kind of reinforces what you're trying to stay away from. There are not

> I've been in touch with HNers on the other side of the conflict as well This thinking kind of reinforces what you're trying to stay away from. There are not just 'two sides' to this. And I'm not sure what you would envision as an HNer from the "other side": someone in support of Hamas? In support of the Palestinian people? I'm only commenting here because I think the bias you fear expressing can still kind of appear in different ways. I really do appreciate the approach you're taking here with attempting to allow for curious and thoughtful discussion about contemporary topics while being cognizant of the dangers.

dang 3y ago
You're of course right that there are many more than two sides to the topic, but there's a strong tendency for users (being human) to identify with one or the other side in this war, and that's what I was referring to. I take your point that my wording was unclear there, and even a grain of unclarity is pretty dangerous in this context.
- whycome 3y ago
  My experience with this conflict has been that people have had to specifically demonstrate that there are more than two sides to this. Support for the Palestinian people or being against large-scale bombing does not mean one supports Hamas. Take a look at how CNN vs BBC vs The Guardian categorize the conflict. CNN and NBC News describes it as the "Israel-Hamas War" (Reuters similarly uses "Israel and Hamas at war") while the BBC and Guardian list it as the "Israel-Gaza war" (and I'm pretty sure the Guardian previously used the same terminology as CNN). https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-13-23/index.html https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-ga... https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt https://www.nbcnews.com/Israel-Hamas-war-Gaza-Strip-conflict https://www.nbcnews.com/Israel-Hamas-war-Gaza-Strip-conflict
scythe 3y ago
My interpretation of "other side" was "other side of the border", i.e. someone living in Gaza or possibly the West Bank. In that case there are literally two sides (I could cite the Jordan curve theorem?). But that may not have been what dang meant.
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
There are two sides - ordinary people on both sides, who mostly just want it all to stop, and the leaders on both sides, who want it to continue. (As do arms dealers.) The ordinary people have far more in common with each other than they do with the leaders who are keeping this war running.
- mqp 3y ago
  There are no 2 sides. There is an oppressor and the oppressed. The coloniser and the colonised. The occupation and the occupied.
  - salawat 3y ago
    >There are no 2 sides. >Go on to break everything down into two sided relationships. Remember poster: Despite the Romulan's insistence, There...are...four...lights!
    - mqp 3y ago
      2 sides implies equal footing. Especially as many equate this to a war. This isn't a war, it's a genocide. But joke about it. Who cares? Just a bunch of people out of sight, out of mind, getting blown to bits day in day out. Hilarious isn't it.
- colechristensen 3y ago
  60% of surveyed Palestinians “extremely supported” the military actions on Jan 7, an additional 15% somewhat supported. This was research done by Palestinians based locally. There is a lot of hopeful thinking about humanity being conjured out of thin air, evidence on the ground is to the contrary. Many people on the ground support the conflict and expect to win. A great majority of Palestinians supported the attacks in January. A great majority of Israelis insist on a military response taken to its conclusion. This is not the case of peoples being held hostage by their leaders. They might not like their leaders but they would put new ones in power who were substantially the same. https://news.stanford.edu/report/2023/12/05/palestinians-views-oct-7/ https://news.stanford.edu/report/2023/12/05/palestinians-vie... https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20...

dang 3y ago

You're of course right that there are many more than two sides to the topic, but there's a strong tendency for users (being human) to identify with one or the other side in this war, and that's what I was referring to. I take your point that my wording was unclear there, and even a grain of unclarity is pretty dangerous in this context.

whycome 3y ago
My experience with this conflict has been that people have had to specifically demonstrate that there are more than two sides to this. Support for the Palestinian people or being against large-scale bombing does not mean one supports Hamas. Take a look at how CNN vs BBC vs The Guardian categorize the conflict. CNN and NBC News describes it as the "Israel-Hamas War" (Reuters similarly uses "Israel and Hamas at war") while the BBC and Guardian list it as the "Israel-Gaza war" (and I'm pretty sure the Guardian previously used the same terminology as CNN). https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-13-23/index.html https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-ga... https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/ https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2vdnvdg6xxt https://www.nbcnews.com/Israel-Hamas-war-Gaza-Strip-conflict https://www.nbcnews.com/Israel-Hamas-war-Gaza-Strip-conflict

scythe 3y ago

My interpretation of "other side" was "other side of the border", i.e. someone living in Gaza or possibly the West Bank. In that case there are literally two sides (I could cite the Jordan curve theorem?). But that may not have been what dang meant.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

There are two sides - ordinary people on both sides, who mostly just want it all to stop, and the leaders on both sides, who want it to continue. (As do arms dealers.) The ordinary people have far more in common with each other than they do with the leaders who are keeping this war running.

mqp 3y ago
There are no 2 sides. There is an oppressor and the oppressed. The coloniser and the colonised. The occupation and the occupied.
- salawat 3y ago
  >There are no 2 sides. >Go on to break everything down into two sided relationships. Remember poster: Despite the Romulan's insistence, There...are...four...lights!
  - mqp 3y ago
    2 sides implies equal footing. Especially as many equate this to a war. This isn't a war, it's a genocide. But joke about it. Who cares? Just a bunch of people out of sight, out of mind, getting blown to bits day in day out. Hilarious isn't it.
colechristensen 3y ago
60% of surveyed Palestinians “extremely supported” the military actions on Jan 7, an additional 15% somewhat supported. This was research done by Palestinians based locally. There is a lot of hopeful thinking about humanity being conjured out of thin air, evidence on the ground is to the contrary. Many people on the ground support the conflict and expect to win. A great majority of Palestinians supported the attacks in January. A great majority of Israelis insist on a military response taken to its conclusion. This is not the case of peoples being held hostage by their leaders. They might not like their leaders but they would put new ones in power who were substantially the same. https://news.stanford.edu/report/2023/12/05/palestinians-views-oct-7/ https://news.stanford.edu/report/2023/12/05/palestinians-vie... https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20...