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> 1. It has to happen in the same time as the agression There are still rockets flying out of Gaza into Israel. > 2. Its only purpose is to defend against the

> 1. It has to happen in the same time as the agression There are still rockets flying out of Gaza into Israel. > 2. Its only purpose is to defend against the agression The people sending those rockets are in Gaza, so to stop them, Israel has to go there. > 3. The defense has to be proportionate That one is regularly the most difficult point of contention in individual self-defense. Hamas essentially goes by this playbook: https://imgur.com/XX6HVrn https://imgur.com/XX6HVrn So, moving it back to individual self-defense (or coming to somebody's aid, which is covered by approximately the same rules): what should be done about the guy holding a loaded gun at his hostage's head while covering himself in babys?

leereeves 3y ago
> what should be done about the guy holding a loaded gun at his hostage's head while covering himself in babys? It's a difficult situation, but I doubt the answer would be to shoot the guy and two babies, which is analogous to Israel's response, if you believe their claim that 1/3 of the people they've killed were Hamas.
- js212 3y ago
  And the total death counts are coming from a reliable source?
  - leereeves 3y ago
    According to the AP, yes. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033 https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-mini...
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  >I doubt the answer would be to shoot the guy and two babies not unreasonable if they are pointing the gun at you and your baby. How many children would you kill to save your child? would you just give it up to die?
enterprise_cog 3y ago
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- wahnfrieden 3y ago
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  - slibhb 3y ago
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    - enterprise_cog 3y ago
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      - slibhb 3y ago
        If the IDF didn't care about civilian casualities it could kill everyone inside Gaza in a matter of days, with or without nuclear weapons. Consider the opposite: If Hamas had a nuclear weapon, would it pause before detonating it in Tel Aviv? Of course not.
        enterprise_cog 3y ago
        Israel nuking/genociding Gaza would effectively be the end of the Zionist experiment. It would be internationally condemned, and trigger a larger war that would certainly bring in Hezb/Iran. IDF can’t win that war, and the US doesn’t want to fight it. It’s easy to demonize your enemy and say they would commit atrocities and use that as justification to commit your own.
        slibhb 3y ago
        Israel should try harder to avoid killing civilians. But to act like they don't try at all (which you did) is objectively wrong. Moving onto hypotheticals, international condemnations don't mean a whole lot. At any rate, I expect that Israel would win a war against Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Or perhaps that war would be indecisive, but Israel wouldn't lose. Finally, it's very clear that Hamas actively wants to kill Israeli civilians. Israel's behavior is not beyond reproach but they aren't going through Palestinian towns and shooting old people and children.
kamikazeturtles 3y ago
1. How many though and is it enough to justify the response. Why not go after those targets exactly. I'm sure they can tell exactly where the rockets are being fired from 2. Maybe, Netanyahu not sending Hamas hundreds of millions of dollars to begin with would have been better 3. The "human shields" argument got old the moment it came out that half the buildings in Gaza were destroyed, more homes than Hamas fighters There's no moral high ground here unless you can find a way to dehumanize Palestinians. And that's unacceptable.
RyanHamilton 3y ago
Has Israel said what the plan is for Gaza in future? Politically, Economically, Rebuilding?
- 0x457 3y ago
  You do realize that Israel left Gaza alone in 2005? Everything that is happening since then is the direct result of what Palestinians did since then. Netanyahu uses this situation to stay in power. He has no plans beyond that.

leereeves 3y ago

> what should be done about the guy holding a loaded gun at his hostage's head while covering himself in babys? It's a difficult situation, but I doubt the answer would be to shoot the guy and two babies, which is analogous to Israel's response, if you believe their claim that 1/3 of the people they've killed were Hamas.

js212 3y ago
And the total death counts are coming from a reliable source?
- leereeves 3y ago
  According to the AP, yes. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033 https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-mini...
s1artibartfast 3y ago
>I doubt the answer would be to shoot the guy and two babies not unreasonable if they are pointing the gun at you and your baby. How many children would you kill to save your child? would you just give it up to die?

enterprise_cog 3y ago

[flagged]

wahnfrieden 3y ago
[flagged]
- slibhb 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - enterprise_cog 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - slibhb 3y ago
      If the IDF didn't care about civilian casualities it could kill everyone inside Gaza in a matter of days, with or without nuclear weapons. Consider the opposite: If Hamas had a nuclear weapon, would it pause before detonating it in Tel Aviv? Of course not.
      - enterprise_cog 3y ago
        Israel nuking/genociding Gaza would effectively be the end of the Zionist experiment. It would be internationally condemned, and trigger a larger war that would certainly bring in Hezb/Iran. IDF can’t win that war, and the US doesn’t want to fight it. It’s easy to demonize your enemy and say they would commit atrocities and use that as justification to commit your own.
        slibhb 3y ago
        Israel should try harder to avoid killing civilians. But to act like they don't try at all (which you did) is objectively wrong. Moving onto hypotheticals, international condemnations don't mean a whole lot. At any rate, I expect that Israel would win a war against Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Or perhaps that war would be indecisive, but Israel wouldn't lose. Finally, it's very clear that Hamas actively wants to kill Israeli civilians. Israel's behavior is not beyond reproach but they aren't going through Palestinian towns and shooting old people and children.

kamikazeturtles 3y ago

1. How many though and is it enough to justify the response. Why not go after those targets exactly. I'm sure they can tell exactly where the rockets are being fired from 2. Maybe, Netanyahu not sending Hamas hundreds of millions of dollars to begin with would have been better 3. The "human shields" argument got old the moment it came out that half the buildings in Gaza were destroyed, more homes than Hamas fighters There's no moral high ground here unless you can find a way to dehumanize Palestinians. And that's unacceptable.

RyanHamilton 3y ago

Has Israel said what the plan is for Gaza in future? Politically, Economically, Rebuilding?

0x457 3y ago
You do realize that Israel left Gaza alone in 2005? Everything that is happening since then is the direct result of what Palestinians did since then. Netanyahu uses this situation to stay in power. He has no plans beyond that.