8 ms·

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an ov

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that mistake.

PoignardAzur 3y ago
To misquote Bryan Cantrill, one should not make the mistake of anthropomorphizing Netanyahu. When a nationalist politician like him is faced with an event like this, long-term international diplomacy considerations barely enter the picture. The violence just comforted him in his previous worldviews, all he saw was that his nationalistic policies were justified and the only viable answer was to be even more of a nationalist. I don't see any reality where he didn't have the most violent response he could get away with.
- megaman821 3y ago
  If there as an election tomorrow in Israel, do you think the new leader would be against war? Like it or not, Hamas' actions have prompted a response from the Israeli people, a different leader wouldn't change that sentiment.
  - angiosperm 3y ago
    True, Israeli votes are the only votes that have had, and can have, any material effect there. They have voted for Netanyahu reliably for years, so the present situation, Hamas included, is what they have, collectively, chosen. Hamas has always been Netanyahu's staunchest political ally. If Israeli voters ever choose differently, change might be possible. Until then, things will be reliably more of the same.
    - ido 3y ago
      Netanyahu has in fact won less than 50% of the votes but due to a technicality managed to assemble a coalition with other parties that amounted to 64 of 120 seats in parliament (similar to Bush Jr. and Trump having won US elections despite winning less than 50% of the votes due to the electoral college). The latest polls show Netanyahu and his government with a less than 30% approval rating, this was hardly a slam dunk victory (and in fact Netanyahu replaced another prime minister who ruled between his terms when he barely won the November 2022 elections).
      - angiosperm 3y ago
        It remains the US's collective fault that Bush minor and Trump got into office on minority votes. We know how to fix the electoral system, and numerous states have chosen to implement that fix, so it just waits on a few more states to sign on. What you say offers more hope than I had imagined possible.
        vimax 3y ago
        What is the fix are are you referring to?
        underdeserver 3y ago
        Probably the national popular vote interstate compact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta...
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Isreali-Palestinian history didn't begin on October 7th. The sentiment isn't a creation of that event, though obviously the attack influenced it. The sentiment is also partly a creation of years of right-wing politics and an ineffectual opposition. It's an issue in many countries, as we (even on HN) throw humanitarianism away, and the study of it, we will of course lose quite a lot. What replaces it?
dubcanada 3y ago
Israel's response tends to stem from a history of oppression which is where it gets touchy. Jewish have not exactly been treated well for most of the 20th century. Not saying that is a reason to invoke that upon someone else, but it tends to be where most thoughts come from. A sense of if we don't do something we'll lose "our" home.
- hef19898 3y ago
  That explains what happened in 50s and 60s. Leveling Gaza in 2023 doesn't fall in that category, Hamas never had the power to do anything about Israel's existence as a state.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    The Zionist project began long before WW2 (and before WW1)
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Not sure what that has to do with it. The current conflict between Palsetinians and Israel roots back to the foubdation of Israel as a state after WW2. Which I get, jews came pretty close to extinction, and arguably not a lot of people actually cared about that. Hence the need for a state of their own. 80 years and a bunch of wars, insurgencies, counter-insurgencies, terror and air campaigns later, interseded with a handful of peace initiatives, the situation is truely FUBAR. I am not convinced so that leveling Gaza actually does a lot to solve that problem.
      - Maken 3y ago
        The origins of Israel go back to the post-WW1 Ottoman partition. WW2 just fed them more colonists.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    From the perspective of Israel's defense forces, Hamas doesn't have that power because Israel responds the way it does. I'd imagine that for many in Israel the lesson of the 60s is that if given an opening all of their neighbors will attack, so Israel cannot ever be seen as responding lukewarmly to an attack, even one by a party that couldn't destroy them singlehandedly. (I'm not arguing that this position is correct, just trying to explain another possible perspective.)
throwboatyface 3y ago
All reports are that Netanyahu and the Israeli intelligence services knew this attack was coming. They've been promoting Hamas over more moderate elements in Gaza. The goal was to provoke an attack which would "justify" a counter-attack to completely level Gaza and kill or force out all the remaining civilians.
- ashirusnw 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - notthemessiah 3y ago
    Israel's early support of Hamas is no secret, they saw Hamas as a religious Islamist counterweight to the secular leftist PLO and explicitly funded them to divide Palestinian opinion. [1] Also no longer a secret is the fact that Netanyahu explicitly allowed other Arab governments to smuggle money to Hamas. [2] And the intelligence failures leave a lot of questions open, especially given the advanced state of the Israeli intelligence apparatus (Gazan are forced to be limited to 2G so they can be spied on easily). [3] The only weak conspiracy theory here is that Israel explicitly let the attack happen, rather than the reality that they took unnecessary risks to achieve fascistic political aims that opened the possibility of retaliation. [1] https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... [3] https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-surveillance-tech-dystopia https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-surve...
  - adhamsalama 3y ago
    [flagged]
- lornemalvo 3y ago
  Claiming that "All reports" are saying this does not make it less of a conspiracy theory.
- 3y ago
barrkel 3y ago
As I wrote on September 14th, 2001, 3 days after 9/11, "Just don't act rashly". https://groups.google.com/g/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/c/LzFaCmbAbDA/m/QxoS2hRykiUJ https://groups.google.com/g/borland.public.delphi.non-techni...
Giorgi 3y ago
[flagged]
anovick 3y ago
One big difference: Israel lives by the border of Gaza, right next to the terrorists that forged the October 7th attack. Meanwhile, the US had no border with the belligerent terrorist organization's societies (Iraq, Syria, ME). Would the US allow a terrorist organization that both DECLARES, has CAPABILITIES to, and HAS DEMONSTRATED INTENT to harm its citizens to live by its borders, and threaten with continued assaults? hell no.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  Do you think the cartels have never kidnapped an american citizen or killed DEA agents?
  - blaufast 3y ago
    the more i think about it, the cartels are a pretty good comparison
    - slibhb 3y ago
      How? The cartels want to make money through illegal means, they don't want to destroy America. The cartels studiously avoid killing Americans. When they do kill Americans, the leadership either kills the members who killed Americans or turns them in, e.g. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gulf-cartel-apologizes-americans-are-kidnapped-killed-mexico-rcna74242 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gulf-cartel-apologizes-...
  - slibhb 3y ago
    If Mexico-based cartels killed 1000 Americans and kidnapped 200, the US would send armed forces into Mexico in a heartbeat, probably with the support of the Mexican government. Of course the cartels don't do that, though, because their goal isn't to murder Americans and destroy America.
  - anovick 3y ago
    AFAIK cartel gang members by the border of US aren't taught from young age that all US citizens are demons that stole something that belongs to them, and that their goal in life is to kill as many americans as possible. They also don't obtain and launch thousands of rockets at US cities, or go on 3,000-men raid of US cities by the border for the main objective of killing, hurting, kidnapping and instilling fear into US citizens. The comparison of cartels to terrorist militias like Hamas is ridiculous and reveals ignorance.
edanm 3y ago
This is a common, but very flawed misunderstanding of the situation in Israel, by analogizing it to 9/11. (Many Israelis were pushing this narrative at the start of this, btw, but that doesn't make it true.) This wasn't just a terror attack, like 9/11 was. It was an invasion. Thousands of armed militants breached the border and invaded Israel, then killed more than a thousand Israelis. The militants were inside Israel for a few days after. In addition to the ground invasion, Hamas shot rockets into Israel, and has continues to shoot rockets at Israel this entire time. This wasn't a terror attack. It was an invasion and a declaration of war. In addition to all of that, for the first few weeks after this invasion, it was very unclear whether this would lead to a wider, joint attack by other forces as well. It is very hard for people in the US, and for most Westerners, to really understand what it's like to be afraid of losing a war. Israel probably would've survived even if this war turned into a combined attack by not just Hamas, but by Hezbollah and possibly even others. (Who, btw, are also shooting at Israel every day, just not doing it enough to really be considered another combatant.) The response to 9/11 was maybe an overreaction. But 9/11 was not a real threat to the US , and this was fairly clear. This is an entirely different situation - there is a sworn enemy of Israel on its borders, proving they have the capability to kill thousands of citizens, and claiming they're going to do this over and over. That's a situation that a country can't live with, which is why Israel's reaction is not an overreaction - it's what any country on earth would do. Notes: 1. This doesn't mean that everything Israel does is ok - there are different ways of prosecuting a war, Israel could still be doing it in a very immoral way and be consistent with everything I said above (I don't think that's true, but it's orthogonal to my point in this comment). 2. This comment also doesn't say anything about whether or not Hamas is "justified" in invading Israel, nor does it claim that "history started on October 7th" or anything silly like that. Of course there's context to this whole situation. (It should be needless to say but I'll say it anyway - there is no excuse for Hamas's deliberate targeting of civilians, and no excuse for the slaughter they committed. Still, that's also orthogonal to the point I'm making in this comment.)
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > it was very unclear whether this would lead to a wider, joint attack by other forces as well I agree that it's easy to discuss rationally from the outside. Hamas is not a threat to Israeli existence. Without extensive and far superior outside help, Hamas could not hold a square meter of Israeli (non-Gazan) territory). Do you have insight into why Israelis talk about an "existential" war? I'm not dismissing their feelings - WTF do I know? - but I think it goes beyond expected overreaction and the exaggerations of a few fringe figures. (And obviously, existential or not, Israelis will not want to experience future attacks like this Oct 7.)
Nathanba 3y ago
> the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction I don't agree with that at all, the point of a terrorist attack is to continue a war of attrition. An overreaction is actually the worst thing that can happen to terrorists: It nullifies their attempt to win via small incremental attritional steps. The reason why the US didn't win the war against terror is because it didn't attack the core ideology that causes the terror. For example in their fight against Nazi ideology in post war Germany the US "overreacted" hard and made sure that Germany was forced to make the nazi ideology wholly illegal and every depiction of a nazi symbol in public illegal.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  > US "overreacted" hard and made sure that Germany was forced to make the nazi ideology wholly illegal and every depiction of a nazi symbol in public illegal. The US also poured a massive fortune into rebuilding the West German economy and society, to ensure it wouldn't fall to communism. Violence and repression alone would not have worked.
  - Nathanba 3y ago
    The US and many other countries also pour massive amounts of money into Palestine: https://www.usaid.gov/west-bank-and-gaza/our-work https://www.usaid.gov/west-bank-and-gaza/our-work
arminiusreturns 3y ago
My political awareness was forged by participating in the Iraq war on the US side after falling for the massive propaganda before. I've literally never been the same person since, and have spent most of my waking free hours in between the jobs I can barely hold down for my PTSD trying to understand the details behind the global geopolitical situation. The truth is this is likely just a continuation of the same playbook, and until one understands the true reasons behind the GWOT one will not be able to understand why it seems those "mistakes" haven't been learned from. When I started asking Cui Bono about Iraq (I did not participate in Afghanistan) and the various real results of the war I keep returning to Israel. For example, I know a person who was in the Green Zone when an Iraqi general came and said "I have 40k military men about to have no job, what do you want to do with them, please hire them." and the top-down directive that every boot-on-the-ground with half a brain knew would result in majorly increased chaos was to tell them to f-off! My conclusion after tons of reading is that balkanization was part of the intention as part of prepping for Oded Yinon. (I won't even start on the various secret societies (ancient mystery religions) obsession with Solomons temple and rebuilding the third temple, which would require the destruction of Al Aqsa) Then as I started truly analyzing 9/11 and doing what the intel bubbas call "threat finance", I keep ending up at deep state actors heavily tied to Israel (and the UK) even within my (US) government. For an example that is even mirrored in this recent escalation, are indicators of pre-knowledge via trading that occurred prior. This happened on 9/11 (by a firm formerly chaired by AB Buzzy Krongard, A.B. Brown, acquired by Banker's Trust turned Banker's Trust-AB Brown) and before 10/7, and in a way that is mathematically provable to be major outliers. My point is that there are much deeper things going on that surface analysis will fail to provide understanding for. If I went into further detail, I would for sure be seen as a "crazy conspiracy theorist"... I riff on Barbossa in Pirates of the Caribbean "You'd best start believing in ghost stories, because you're in one!"
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  There was evidence that some folks knew of this attack and traded against it too. The official sources for the 9/11 stuff claim that the evidence for it there was circumstantial, but I still don’t believe it. With 9/11 the 28 pages shows that the Saudis are almost certainly the ones responsible for the attack but due to oil we simply ignore it and sweep it under the rug. The US is institutionally unable to bring those responsible for terrorism to justice.

PoignardAzur 3y ago

To misquote Bryan Cantrill, one should not make the mistake of anthropomorphizing Netanyahu. When a nationalist politician like him is faced with an event like this, long-term international diplomacy considerations barely enter the picture. The violence just comforted him in his previous worldviews, all he saw was that his nationalistic policies were justified and the only viable answer was to be even more of a nationalist. I don't see any reality where he didn't have the most violent response he could get away with.

megaman821 3y ago
If there as an election tomorrow in Israel, do you think the new leader would be against war? Like it or not, Hamas' actions have prompted a response from the Israeli people, a different leader wouldn't change that sentiment.
- angiosperm 3y ago
  True, Israeli votes are the only votes that have had, and can have, any material effect there. They have voted for Netanyahu reliably for years, so the present situation, Hamas included, is what they have, collectively, chosen. Hamas has always been Netanyahu's staunchest political ally. If Israeli voters ever choose differently, change might be possible. Until then, things will be reliably more of the same.
  - ido 3y ago
    Netanyahu has in fact won less than 50% of the votes but due to a technicality managed to assemble a coalition with other parties that amounted to 64 of 120 seats in parliament (similar to Bush Jr. and Trump having won US elections despite winning less than 50% of the votes due to the electoral college). The latest polls show Netanyahu and his government with a less than 30% approval rating, this was hardly a slam dunk victory (and in fact Netanyahu replaced another prime minister who ruled between his terms when he barely won the November 2022 elections).
    - angiosperm 3y ago
      It remains the US's collective fault that Bush minor and Trump got into office on minority votes. We know how to fix the electoral system, and numerous states have chosen to implement that fix, so it just waits on a few more states to sign on. What you say offers more hope than I had imagined possible.
      - vimax 3y ago
        What is the fix are are you referring to?
        underdeserver 3y ago
        Probably the national popular vote interstate compact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta...
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Isreali-Palestinian history didn't begin on October 7th. The sentiment isn't a creation of that event, though obviously the attack influenced it. The sentiment is also partly a creation of years of right-wing politics and an ineffectual opposition. It's an issue in many countries, as we (even on HN) throw humanitarianism away, and the study of it, we will of course lose quite a lot. What replaces it?

dubcanada 3y ago

Israel's response tends to stem from a history of oppression which is where it gets touchy. Jewish have not exactly been treated well for most of the 20th century. Not saying that is a reason to invoke that upon someone else, but it tends to be where most thoughts come from. A sense of if we don't do something we'll lose "our" home.

hef19898 3y ago
That explains what happened in 50s and 60s. Leveling Gaza in 2023 doesn't fall in that category, Hamas never had the power to do anything about Israel's existence as a state.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  The Zionist project began long before WW2 (and before WW1)
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Not sure what that has to do with it. The current conflict between Palsetinians and Israel roots back to the foubdation of Israel as a state after WW2. Which I get, jews came pretty close to extinction, and arguably not a lot of people actually cared about that. Hence the need for a state of their own. 80 years and a bunch of wars, insurgencies, counter-insurgencies, terror and air campaigns later, interseded with a handful of peace initiatives, the situation is truely FUBAR. I am not convinced so that leveling Gaza actually does a lot to solve that problem.
    - Maken 3y ago
      The origins of Israel go back to the post-WW1 Ottoman partition. WW2 just fed them more colonists.
- lolinder 3y ago
  From the perspective of Israel's defense forces, Hamas doesn't have that power because Israel responds the way it does. I'd imagine that for many in Israel the lesson of the 60s is that if given an opening all of their neighbors will attack, so Israel cannot ever be seen as responding lukewarmly to an attack, even one by a party that couldn't destroy them singlehandedly. (I'm not arguing that this position is correct, just trying to explain another possible perspective.)

throwboatyface 3y ago

All reports are that Netanyahu and the Israeli intelligence services knew this attack was coming. They've been promoting Hamas over more moderate elements in Gaza. The goal was to provoke an attack which would "justify" a counter-attack to completely level Gaza and kill or force out all the remaining civilians.

ashirusnw 3y ago
[flagged]
- notthemessiah 3y ago
  Israel's early support of Hamas is no secret, they saw Hamas as a religious Islamist counterweight to the secular leftist PLO and explicitly funded them to divide Palestinian opinion. [1] Also no longer a secret is the fact that Netanyahu explicitly allowed other Arab governments to smuggle money to Hamas. [2] And the intelligence failures leave a lot of questions open, especially given the advanced state of the Israeli intelligence apparatus (Gazan are forced to be limited to 2G so they can be spied on easily). [3] The only weak conspiracy theory here is that Israel explicitly let the attack happen, rather than the reality that they took unnecessary risks to achieve fascistic political aims that opened the possibility of retaliation. [1] https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... [3] https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-surveillance-tech-dystopia https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-surve...
- adhamsalama 3y ago
  [flagged]
lornemalvo 3y ago
Claiming that "All reports" are saying this does not make it less of a conspiracy theory.
3y ago

barrkel 3y ago

As I wrote on September 14th, 2001, 3 days after 9/11, "Just don't act rashly". https://groups.google.com/g/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/c/LzFaCmbAbDA/m/QxoS2hRykiUJ https://groups.google.com/g/borland.public.delphi.non-techni...

Giorgi 3y ago

[flagged]

anovick 3y ago

One big difference: Israel lives by the border of Gaza, right next to the terrorists that forged the October 7th attack. Meanwhile, the US had no border with the belligerent terrorist organization's societies (Iraq, Syria, ME). Would the US allow a terrorist organization that both DECLARES, has CAPABILITIES to, and HAS DEMONSTRATED INTENT to harm its citizens to live by its borders, and threaten with continued assaults? hell no.

lesuorac 3y ago
Do you think the cartels have never kidnapped an american citizen or killed DEA agents?
- blaufast 3y ago
  the more i think about it, the cartels are a pretty good comparison
  - slibhb 3y ago
    How? The cartels want to make money through illegal means, they don't want to destroy America. The cartels studiously avoid killing Americans. When they do kill Americans, the leadership either kills the members who killed Americans or turns them in, e.g. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gulf-cartel-apologizes-americans-are-kidnapped-killed-mexico-rcna74242 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gulf-cartel-apologizes-...
- slibhb 3y ago
  If Mexico-based cartels killed 1000 Americans and kidnapped 200, the US would send armed forces into Mexico in a heartbeat, probably with the support of the Mexican government. Of course the cartels don't do that, though, because their goal isn't to murder Americans and destroy America.
- anovick 3y ago
  AFAIK cartel gang members by the border of US aren't taught from young age that all US citizens are demons that stole something that belongs to them, and that their goal in life is to kill as many americans as possible. They also don't obtain and launch thousands of rockets at US cities, or go on 3,000-men raid of US cities by the border for the main objective of killing, hurting, kidnapping and instilling fear into US citizens. The comparison of cartels to terrorist militias like Hamas is ridiculous and reveals ignorance.

edanm 3y ago

This is a common, but very flawed misunderstanding of the situation in Israel, by analogizing it to 9/11. (Many Israelis were pushing this narrative at the start of this, btw, but that doesn't make it true.) This wasn't just a terror attack, like 9/11 was. It was an invasion. Thousands of armed militants breached the border and invaded Israel, then killed more than a thousand Israelis. The militants were inside Israel for a few days after. In addition to the ground invasion, Hamas shot rockets into Israel, and has continues to shoot rockets at Israel this entire time. This wasn't a terror attack. It was an invasion and a declaration of war. In addition to all of that, for the first few weeks after this invasion, it was very unclear whether this would lead to a wider, joint attack by other forces as well. It is very hard for people in the US, and for most Westerners, to really understand what it's like to be afraid of losing a war. Israel probably would've survived even if this war turned into a combined attack by not just Hamas, but by Hezbollah and possibly even others. (Who, btw, are also shooting at Israel every day, just not doing it enough to really be considered another combatant.) The response to 9/11 was maybe an overreaction. But 9/11 was not a real threat to the US , and this was fairly clear. This is an entirely different situation - there is a sworn enemy of Israel on its borders, proving they have the capability to kill thousands of citizens, and claiming they're going to do this over and over. That's a situation that a country can't live with, which is why Israel's reaction is not an overreaction - it's what any country on earth would do. Notes: 1. This doesn't mean that everything Israel does is ok - there are different ways of prosecuting a war, Israel could still be doing it in a very immoral way and be consistent with everything I said above (I don't think that's true, but it's orthogonal to my point in this comment). 2. This comment also doesn't say anything about whether or not Hamas is "justified" in invading Israel, nor does it claim that "history started on October 7th" or anything silly like that. Of course there's context to this whole situation. (It should be needless to say but I'll say it anyway - there is no excuse for Hamas's deliberate targeting of civilians, and no excuse for the slaughter they committed. Still, that's also orthogonal to the point I'm making in this comment.)

wolverine876 3y ago
> it was very unclear whether this would lead to a wider, joint attack by other forces as well I agree that it's easy to discuss rationally from the outside. Hamas is not a threat to Israeli existence. Without extensive and far superior outside help, Hamas could not hold a square meter of Israeli (non-Gazan) territory). Do you have insight into why Israelis talk about an "existential" war? I'm not dismissing their feelings - WTF do I know? - but I think it goes beyond expected overreaction and the exaggerations of a few fringe figures. (And obviously, existential or not, Israelis will not want to experience future attacks like this Oct 7.)

Nathanba 3y ago

> the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction I don't agree with that at all, the point of a terrorist attack is to continue a war of attrition. An overreaction is actually the worst thing that can happen to terrorists: It nullifies their attempt to win via small incremental attritional steps. The reason why the US didn't win the war against terror is because it didn't attack the core ideology that causes the terror. For example in their fight against Nazi ideology in post war Germany the US "overreacted" hard and made sure that Germany was forced to make the nazi ideology wholly illegal and every depiction of a nazi symbol in public illegal.

Georgelemental 3y ago
> US "overreacted" hard and made sure that Germany was forced to make the nazi ideology wholly illegal and every depiction of a nazi symbol in public illegal. The US also poured a massive fortune into rebuilding the West German economy and society, to ensure it wouldn't fall to communism. Violence and repression alone would not have worked.
- Nathanba 3y ago
  The US and many other countries also pour massive amounts of money into Palestine: https://www.usaid.gov/west-bank-and-gaza/our-work https://www.usaid.gov/west-bank-and-gaza/our-work

arminiusreturns 3y ago

My political awareness was forged by participating in the Iraq war on the US side after falling for the massive propaganda before. I've literally never been the same person since, and have spent most of my waking free hours in between the jobs I can barely hold down for my PTSD trying to understand the details behind the global geopolitical situation. The truth is this is likely just a continuation of the same playbook, and until one understands the true reasons behind the GWOT one will not be able to understand why it seems those "mistakes" haven't been learned from. When I started asking Cui Bono about Iraq (I did not participate in Afghanistan) and the various real results of the war I keep returning to Israel. For example, I know a person who was in the Green Zone when an Iraqi general came and said "I have 40k military men about to have no job, what do you want to do with them, please hire them." and the top-down directive that every boot-on-the-ground with half a brain knew would result in majorly increased chaos was to tell them to f-off! My conclusion after tons of reading is that balkanization was part of the intention as part of prepping for Oded Yinon. (I won't even start on the various secret societies (ancient mystery religions) obsession with Solomons temple and rebuilding the third temple, which would require the destruction of Al Aqsa) Then as I started truly analyzing 9/11 and doing what the intel bubbas call "threat finance", I keep ending up at deep state actors heavily tied to Israel (and the UK) even within my (US) government. For an example that is even mirrored in this recent escalation, are indicators of pre-knowledge via trading that occurred prior. This happened on 9/11 (by a firm formerly chaired by AB Buzzy Krongard, A.B. Brown, acquired by Banker's Trust turned Banker's Trust-AB Brown) and before 10/7, and in a way that is mathematically provable to be major outliers. My point is that there are much deeper things going on that surface analysis will fail to provide understanding for. If I went into further detail, I would for sure be seen as a "crazy conspiracy theorist"... I riff on Barbossa in Pirates of the Caribbean "You'd best start believing in ghost stories, because you're in one!"

Der_Einzige 3y ago
There was evidence that some folks knew of this attack and traded against it too. The official sources for the 9/11 stuff claim that the evidence for it there was circumstantial, but I still don’t believe it. With 9/11 the 28 pages shows that the Saudis are almost certainly the ones responsible for the attack but due to oil we simply ignore it and sweep it under the rug. The US is institutionally unable to bring those responsible for terrorism to justice.