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Israel has also been imposing apartheid on Palestinians for years, a fact that high-ranking officials themselves admit [1][2], and which human rights reports co

Israel has also been imposing apartheid on Palestinians for years, a fact that high-ranking officials themselves admit [1][2], and which human rights reports confirm[3]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposin... [2] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex-israeli-general-says-army-partaking-in-west-bank-war-crimes-invokes-nazi-germany/00000189-ee00-d9cf-a7eb-ff2b12bf0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex... [3] https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cassepipe 3y ago
I used to think of the situation as an appartheid too as it seemed to be the most accurate comparison but if found that the more I learned about the situation that that comparison was not helpful at all unless your only purpose is to say that the situation of Palestinians is immoral (which it can be without being "appartheid")
- nemo44x 3y ago
  [flagged]
LtWorf 3y ago
It seems that in Israel there are (very small) quotas for non jewish people to be admitted at university. I've met muslim israeli who have learnt italian to go to study medicine in italy (where there is a notoriously extremely difficult entrance exam) because all of this was easier than going to a local university.
- bushbaba 3y ago
  Source in that? Here’s a source countering https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-arab-students-in-israeli-universities-grows-78-in-7-years/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-arab-students-in-isr...
  - LtWorf 3y ago
    > Source in that? Me, I have personally met people doing it, while being a student myself. From your link: > In postgraduate programs, the proportion of Arab students rose 60% from 3.9% to 6.3%. If you have 0 students and then you get one, it increases ∞%, but sometimes looking at the % in the title, which is just a Δ of the actual % doesn't tell the whole story.
    - bushbaba 3y ago
      You state Israeli universities have a limit on the number of Arab students. I didn’t see anything which supported such a remark.
      - LtWorf 3y ago
        The link you posted yourself doesn't paint a rosy picture, despite the clickbait title.
- liorsbg 3y ago
  Not sure why you would write this, please research. 1. There is actually affirmative action for Arab Israelis. 2. A lot of Israelis (Jewish and Arab alike) go study medicine abroad. You need a near perfect score on the SAT-equivalent exam to get into med school in Israel (not enough spots, too many applicants).
- jo6gwb 3y ago
  There are many Israeli (Jewish) students who go to Europe for medical school. A lot of this has to do with Americans going to Israeli medical schools who take up the space, and it is doubtful this has to do with the individual you met who was Muslim. This past year Israel actually banned/limited the number of Americans who can enroll in their medical schools. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-ends-lucrative-american-medical-training-programs-to-focus-on-local-doctors/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-ends-lucrative-american... Edited to include link
CloudYeller 3y ago
I disagree on the apartheid claim and so does former anti-apartheid activist and South African politician Mosiuoa Lekota [1]. Per Wikipedia, Apartheid is a "system of institutionalised racial segregation", and Israel's citizens include many Arab Muslims and even Palestinians, all of whom have equal rights. Israel's declaration of independence explicitly supported "equality...without distinction of race, creed, or sex" [2]. Arabs are 20% of the Israeli population and yet they are 40% of doctors [3]. The West bank and Gaza are basically separate countries with their own governments. The extremist Israeli settlers should leave those areas since they are not part of Israel, but I am just stating disagreement with the "apartheid" label. The concept of systemic Apartheid is unrelated to a few bad apples occupying and illegally settling in areas outside their national borders. [1] https://thesouthafrican.net/2023/09/28/israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state-former-south-african-defense-minister-the-jerusalem-post/ https://thesouthafrican.net/2023/09/28/israel-is-not-an-apar... [2] https://www.jta.org/archive/full-text-of-israels-proclamation-of-independence-issued-in-tel-aviv https://www.jta.org/archive/full-text-of-israels-proclamatio... [3] https://www.israel21c.org/the-small-israeli-village-where-everyones-a-doctor https://www.israel21c.org/the-small-israeli-village-where-ev...
- lossolo 3y ago
  It's interesting that you are citing a former South African politician who opposed apartheid. I will quote a South African journalist who fought against apartheid, published books about it and defended Israel as a non-apartheid state for many years after moving there. Now, he states that it is indeed an apartheid state. "In 2001, I joined Israel’s government delegation to the world conference against racism in Durban. The government of Ariel Sharon invited me because of my expertise after a quarter-century as a journalist in South Africa; my specialty was reporting on apartheid close up. At the conference, I was disturbed and angered by the multitude of lies and exaggerations about Israel. During the years since, I have argued with all my might against the accusation that Israel is an apartheid state – in lectures, newspaper articles, on TV and in a book." And later he writes: "In Israel, I am now witnessing the apartheid with which I grew up." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/19/israel-apartheid-state-south-africa-netanyahu https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/19/israel...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cassepipe 3y ago

I used to think of the situation as an appartheid too as it seemed to be the most accurate comparison but if found that the more I learned about the situation that that comparison was not helpful at all unless your only purpose is to say that the situation of Palestinians is immoral (which it can be without being "appartheid")

nemo44x 3y ago
[flagged]

LtWorf 3y ago

It seems that in Israel there are (very small) quotas for non jewish people to be admitted at university. I've met muslim israeli who have learnt italian to go to study medicine in italy (where there is a notoriously extremely difficult entrance exam) because all of this was easier than going to a local university.

bushbaba 3y ago
Source in that? Here’s a source countering https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-arab-students-in-israeli-universities-grows-78-in-7-years/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-arab-students-in-isr...
- LtWorf 3y ago
  > Source in that? Me, I have personally met people doing it, while being a student myself. From your link: > In postgraduate programs, the proportion of Arab students rose 60% from 3.9% to 6.3%. If you have 0 students and then you get one, it increases ∞%, but sometimes looking at the % in the title, which is just a Δ of the actual % doesn't tell the whole story.
  - bushbaba 3y ago
    You state Israeli universities have a limit on the number of Arab students. I didn’t see anything which supported such a remark.
    - LtWorf 3y ago
      The link you posted yourself doesn't paint a rosy picture, despite the clickbait title.
liorsbg 3y ago
Not sure why you would write this, please research. 1. There is actually affirmative action for Arab Israelis. 2. A lot of Israelis (Jewish and Arab alike) go study medicine abroad. You need a near perfect score on the SAT-equivalent exam to get into med school in Israel (not enough spots, too many applicants).
jo6gwb 3y ago
There are many Israeli (Jewish) students who go to Europe for medical school. A lot of this has to do with Americans going to Israeli medical schools who take up the space, and it is doubtful this has to do with the individual you met who was Muslim. This past year Israel actually banned/limited the number of Americans who can enroll in their medical schools. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-ends-lucrative-american-medical-training-programs-to-focus-on-local-doctors/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-ends-lucrative-american... Edited to include link

CloudYeller 3y ago

I disagree on the apartheid claim and so does former anti-apartheid activist and South African politician Mosiuoa Lekota [1]. Per Wikipedia, Apartheid is a "system of institutionalised racial segregation", and Israel's citizens include many Arab Muslims and even Palestinians, all of whom have equal rights. Israel's declaration of independence explicitly supported "equality...without distinction of race, creed, or sex" [2]. Arabs are 20% of the Israeli population and yet they are 40% of doctors [3]. The West bank and Gaza are basically separate countries with their own governments. The extremist Israeli settlers should leave those areas since they are not part of Israel, but I am just stating disagreement with the "apartheid" label. The concept of systemic Apartheid is unrelated to a few bad apples occupying and illegally settling in areas outside their national borders. [1] https://thesouthafrican.net/2023/09/28/israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state-former-south-african-defense-minister-the-jerusalem-post/ https://thesouthafrican.net/2023/09/28/israel-is-not-an-apar... [2] https://www.jta.org/archive/full-text-of-israels-proclamation-of-independence-issued-in-tel-aviv https://www.jta.org/archive/full-text-of-israels-proclamatio... [3] https://www.israel21c.org/the-small-israeli-village-where-everyones-a-doctor https://www.israel21c.org/the-small-israeli-village-where-ev...

lossolo 3y ago
It's interesting that you are citing a former South African politician who opposed apartheid. I will quote a South African journalist who fought against apartheid, published books about it and defended Israel as a non-apartheid state for many years after moving there. Now, he states that it is indeed an apartheid state. "In 2001, I joined Israel’s government delegation to the world conference against racism in Durban. The government of Ariel Sharon invited me because of my expertise after a quarter-century as a journalist in South Africa; my specialty was reporting on apartheid close up. At the conference, I was disturbed and angered by the multitude of lies and exaggerations about Israel. During the years since, I have argued with all my might against the accusation that Israel is an apartheid state – in lectures, newspaper articles, on TV and in a book." And later he writes: "In Israel, I am now witnessing the apartheid with which I grew up." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/19/israel-apartheid-state-south-africa-netanyahu https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/19/israel...