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Why is Israel’s reaction worse? They seem to be reacting to an unprovoked attack by an openly genocidal neighbor with a pretty big-standard conventional war to

Why is Israel’s reaction worse? They seem to be reacting to an unprovoked attack by an openly genocidal neighbor with a pretty big-standard conventional war to eliminate the problem regime. I’m not saying that Israel couldn’t be more mindful of optics or civilian casualties, but how is this war not justified?

ngcazz 3y ago
[flagged]
blast 3y ago
It's a question of proportionality. Some responses are justified, others not. The question is whether the current response is justified or excessive. One can deplore Oct 7 without calling it unprovoked. This conflict goes a long way back.
kelseyfrog 3y ago
That's interesting. Do you have any thoughts on Nakba-denialism?
amanaplanacanal 3y ago
This war didn’t start on September 7th. It’s been going on longer than any of us have been alive. The atrocities on both sides are horrible, and I feel sorry for the civilians on both sides who are just trying to live their lives. Unfortunately the Israeli government has all the power here, and they have been completely unable to find a solution over, now, decades. The blockade of Gaza and expanding settlements in the West Bank are just continually stirring the pot. That government, and Hamas, both have to go.
- acdha 3y ago
  > Unfortunately the Israeli government has all the power here, and they have been completely unable to find a solution over, now, decades Unable, or unwilling. The most damaging political assassination in history after Franz Ferdinand was probably when Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated because he was too close to a peace treaty.
acdha 3y ago
Part of the problem is that Hamas seized control and isn’t a popular government. Only like 10-15% of the Palestinian population could have voted the last time they had the chance, so there’s a valid argument that the civilians killed are being victimized twice: by the terrorists using them as human shields and by the IDF targeting them anyway.
adhamsalama 3y ago
Unprovoked? Israel has been massacring innocent civilians for over 75 years. Israel was built just like the US, by massacring native people and stealing their land, which is still happening to this very day, including in the West Bank where Hamas doesn't exist.
nurspouse 3y ago
For context: As a percentage of the population, Hamas's attack on Oct 7th killed 6 times as many people as Al Qaeda did on September 11. If you are an Israeli, you are 6 times more likely to know someone impacted by those attacks than Americans did in 2001. As a result of the 2001 attack, the US invaded two countries, resulting in million(s)[1] dead on the other side. Make no mistake: For any country that has the means, losing 900 people in one day will always be seen as an act of war, and they will respond. While the Israeli response is certainly "disproportionate", it is not by any means an outlier when you compare with typical conflicts around the world. I definitely think Israel's response should be condemned, but I will openly say: Our government(s) in the US routinely do worse. Let there be perspective. [1] Depends on which study you look at.

ngcazz 3y ago

[flagged]

blast 3y ago

It's a question of proportionality. Some responses are justified, others not. The question is whether the current response is justified or excessive. One can deplore Oct 7 without calling it unprovoked. This conflict goes a long way back.

kelseyfrog 3y ago

That's interesting. Do you have any thoughts on Nakba-denialism?

amanaplanacanal 3y ago

This war didn’t start on September 7th. It’s been going on longer than any of us have been alive. The atrocities on both sides are horrible, and I feel sorry for the civilians on both sides who are just trying to live their lives. Unfortunately the Israeli government has all the power here, and they have been completely unable to find a solution over, now, decades. The blockade of Gaza and expanding settlements in the West Bank are just continually stirring the pot. That government, and Hamas, both have to go.

acdha 3y ago
> Unfortunately the Israeli government has all the power here, and they have been completely unable to find a solution over, now, decades Unable, or unwilling. The most damaging political assassination in history after Franz Ferdinand was probably when Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated because he was too close to a peace treaty.

acdha 3y ago

Part of the problem is that Hamas seized control and isn’t a popular government. Only like 10-15% of the Palestinian population could have voted the last time they had the chance, so there’s a valid argument that the civilians killed are being victimized twice: by the terrorists using them as human shields and by the IDF targeting them anyway.

adhamsalama 3y ago

Unprovoked? Israel has been massacring innocent civilians for over 75 years. Israel was built just like the US, by massacring native people and stealing their land, which is still happening to this very day, including in the West Bank where Hamas doesn't exist.

nurspouse 3y ago

For context: As a percentage of the population, Hamas's attack on Oct 7th killed 6 times as many people as Al Qaeda did on September 11. If you are an Israeli, you are 6 times more likely to know someone impacted by those attacks than Americans did in 2001. As a result of the 2001 attack, the US invaded two countries, resulting in million(s)[1] dead on the other side. Make no mistake: For any country that has the means, losing 900 people in one day will always be seen as an act of war, and they will respond. While the Israeli response is certainly "disproportionate", it is not by any means an outlier when you compare with typical conflicts around the world. I definitely think Israel's response should be condemned, but I will openly say: Our government(s) in the US routinely do worse. Let there be perspective. [1] Depends on which study you look at.