7 ms·

PyCharm 2.5 python IDE released.

64 points by salimmadjd 15y ago

pmdan 15y ago
Favorite IDE for Python, and strong features for client-side development as well. It would be great to see them offer increased Tornado support.
revelation 15y ago
Using 2.5 as the version number for your Python IDE is somewhat irritating.
- gulbrandr 15y ago
  I don't understand your comment. Do you mind to elaborate?
  - sdfjkl 15y ago
    I think he means the (obscure) risk of confusing it with the somewhat elderly Python 2.5.
    - gulbrandr 15y ago
      I see. Thanks.
andybak 15y ago
Anyone else on OSX seeing high CPU usage? I get ~7% when it's just sitting there with 1 project open.
- masklinn 15y ago
  Sitting at ~3% for me, on a 2.4GHz 2010 15" MBP, running 10.6
- shutton 15y ago
  Yeah, sitting at around 7% for me on a 2011 MBP i7, can't remember what it was before I upgraded. I've not noticed worse battery life though.
- mjallday 15y ago
  I found when I first ran pycharm it did some indexing for a few minutes before it settled down. That caused some spinning of fans and higher CPU usage.
- andybak 15y ago
  Here's a bug you can vote for: http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-84652?projectKey=IDEA http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-84652?projectKey=ID...
architgupta 15y ago
Non flame-bait question. I am mostly a VIM user. Are there people who do plug-ins on top of vim to get "similar" experience to PyCharm?
- andrem 15y ago
  I was looking for a similar solution and you will find your usual suspects: * https://github.com/klen/python-mode https://github.com/klen/python-mode * http://code.google.com/p/vim-python-ide/ http://code.google.com/p/vim-python-ide/ * http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide In the end ask yourself - which problem are you trying to solve by changing your IDE? If it can't be fixed in your current IDE, try something else. I ended up going with Pycharm using Vim key bindings as it was easier for me to work on different machines and OSes without having to worry too much about setting up my environment.
- jomohke 15y ago
  You need to write a full Python parser to get similar intelligence in vim - and it would be difficult to do smoothly given that vim plugins can't communicate with a long-running process as the code-assist emacs plugins do (which is my biggest complaint about modern vim). Alternatively, PyCharm has a vi plugin which isn't too bad (depending on which features of vim you expect).
  - architgupta 15y ago
    Interesting. So emacs would be able to do this well I imagine. I'll look into the vi bindings support in PyCharm.
- topka 15y ago
  just FYI, PyCharm has a plugin for vim emulation mode.
jsvaughan 15y ago
FWIW if you are an intellij user you can install the jetbrains python plugin, which offers much of the same functionality: http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/PYH/PyCharm+vs.+IntelliJ+IDEA+Python+plugin+FAQ http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/PYH/PyCharm+vs.+Inte...
GvS 15y ago
>Sun JDK 1.6. (OpenJDK is not supported) On Ubuntu Sun JDK is not supported. I'll stick to free Aptana plugin for Eclipse.
- topka 15y ago
  You can install Sun JDK on Ubuntu. It's not a big deal. There are still some problems with using OpenJDK, which are being solved now. So, it will be supported someday too.
  - nknight 15y ago
    Really? Because this issue is marked wontfix: http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-4763 http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-4763 I've noticed that to the extent JetBrains communicates at all, it has a highly irritating habit of marking issues wontfix and making content-free statements (sometimes passive aggressive at that) until they get publicly called on it, and suddenly it's a completely different attitude.
    - topka 15y ago
      It was 6 months ago. And it was a 100% wontfix then. But things change quite rapidly nowadays. Here's one problem solved: https://twitter.com/#!/eniton/statuses/186861528677494784 https://twitter.com/#!/eniton/statuses/186861528677494784. Maybe others can be solved too.
      - nknight 15y ago
        Six months ago, OpenJDK had already been declared the official reference implementation for Java SE 7 (for several months, in fact), and the OS Distributor License had already been withdrawn -- almost two months before that issue was closed. "Things change quite rapidly" indeed. Is JetBrains not able to keep up?
        topka 15y ago
        Unfortunately, declaring something does not always really change things. Something else is often required. JetBrains team has its opinions but is also flexible enough to change its mind. And it has been keeping up quite good during the last 10+ years.
rkwz 15y ago
OT - I'm seeing more OSX based screenshots of cross-platform tools. Is it just for aesthetic purposes or is there a trend where more and more devs are starting to use Macs?
- stevoski 15y ago
  This has been a trend for years now. IMO, when Macs switched to Intel that was when the trend really picked up.
- topka 15y ago
  We found that screenshots on Mac _do_ look better most of the time. And yes, you can see the trend of more and more devs using Macs. Prooflink: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/228843/RailConf_Mac_vs_PC.jpg http://dl.dropbox.com/u/228843/RailConf_Mac_vs_PC.jpg That was shot at RailsConf, where historically more Macs are used, but this is quite general nowadays.
  - nknight 15y ago
    I dug up this shot of PyCon JP 2011: http://www.ianlewis.org/media/img/662/audience.jpg http://www.ianlewis.org/media/img/662/audience.jpg I count at least 8 Macs, two more that may or may not be Macs. I don't see any blatantly non-Mac laptops. To be fair, I can't be sure it's not a session on, say, PyObjC, but I also found this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shimizukawa/6142969129/in/set-72157627536036671/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/shimizukawa/6142969129/in/set-7... Five Macs, possibly a sixth hiding behind one guy's head. Two non-Macs (one looks like a thinkpad and I think the one in the lower right is a vaio).
    - toyg 15y ago
      The trend is undeniable, but there's some selection bias in your post: people with Macs do tend to flaunt them around, especially at geek gatherings where you find a lot of contractors/independent/superstar/fashion-victim developers who have a say in the hardware they use. You don't see the thousands of corporate developers with work-issued laptops nor the academic working on "big rigs"; they're not all uber-hackers but they're not all shit either. Apple adoption is also lower in Europe due to higher prices compared to NA and Japan. Last few times I've been to (Euro) Python conventions, I was actually surprised to see a lot of really skilled guys doing real computation (3d, molecular modelling etc) while happily running Windows on their laptops.
rplnt 15y ago
Price of personal license is +25% for EU countries as opposed to US. I thought it's only game distributors who do this kind of thing.
- toyg 15y ago
  Personally I've found their price for Personal licenses to be very low -- in the Python world, ActiveState Komodo is $295, Wing IDE is $245, BlackAdder is the only one under $100 and it looks quite "underpowered" when compared to PyCharm. Regardless, they have promotions running for long periods, so it's easy to start with a trial and then pick up a real license when the price is lower -- the last one ended on 16 April and was 30% off, I got mine last September and it was 50% off. In general, for software like for everything else, prices reflect what the market will bear. We are willing to pay more, clearly. It's slightly embittering that in this case they cannot bring the usual "import taxes" justification, since they're based in Czech Republic.
  - cjg_ 15y ago
    Based in the EU means they have to collect VAT for all EU customers. And the VAT amount depends on the volume of sales. If they sell more than a certain amount (€100k) to a specific country they can collect the VAT rate for the buyer country otherwise it is the seller country VAT. And the VAT seems to be 20% in Czech Republic. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#Distance_sales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#...)
    - rplnt 15y ago
      It specifically states that the price is without tax (tax excluded). I didn't proceed any further to see if it will be included in the later steps.
      - cjg_ 15y ago
        Checked my last receipt from them, 19% VAT was included in the total amount billed (this was 2011 and it was for Resharper). But the seem to sell it through a German company so I guess it is German VAT.
toyg 15y ago
One major gotcha they're still working on is PyQt support -- their introspection techniques tend to break very often when dealing with it, which results in a lot of unnecessary warnings and word-completion being spotty. I understand their main target market is web-developers (Django and GAE support looks good, now virtualenv is also dealt with in the proper way), but that's a niche that has been crying out loud for good tools for ages (ERIC is weak, sorry).
- topka 15y ago
  Seems there's a number of issues reported for PyQT in PyCharm tracker: http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues/PY?q=PyQT http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues/PY?q=PyQT You're welcome to add yours and vote for existing. Votes matter.
heyitsnick 15y ago
Big PyCharm fan. I have used all the major IDEs, both python specific and general, and I always found they got in the way more than the time-saving features they purported to offer. I always switched back to a basic text editor (Sublime Text). But then I found PyCharm and actually spent a weekend learning how to use it. It's a real pleasure to use. Intellisense stuff works very well, some of the refactoring features are excellent, and all the handy things like ctrl-enter to import things, ctrl-n/ctrl-shift-n to jump to different code in projects, really speeds up development. I still use Sublime Text for short scripts, but for any major projects i use PyCharm for everything. The django support (with debugging, including template debugging) is killer. Also my one interaction with the development has been excellent. I reported a bug (i did have to sign up to their bug track which was a bit of a nuisance), and the bug was fixed in a day and a new update with the fix pushed out to me within a week. Impressive iteration cycle given the size of the software.
denzil_correa 15y ago
Unfortunately they don't have an academic license.
- autodafe 15y ago
  They do: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic
  - denzil_correa 15y ago
    Thanks!
- peterfschaadt 15y ago
  An academic license is $29 a year. If you qualify for a classroom license, it's free. http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic

64 points by salimmadjd 15y ago

pmdan 15y ago

Favorite IDE for Python, and strong features for client-side development as well. It would be great to see them offer increased Tornado support.

revelation 15y ago

Using 2.5 as the version number for your Python IDE is somewhat irritating.

gulbrandr 15y ago
I don't understand your comment. Do you mind to elaborate?
- sdfjkl 15y ago
  I think he means the (obscure) risk of confusing it with the somewhat elderly Python 2.5.
  - gulbrandr 15y ago
    I see. Thanks.

andybak 15y ago

Anyone else on OSX seeing high CPU usage? I get ~7% when it's just sitting there with 1 project open.

masklinn 15y ago
Sitting at ~3% for me, on a 2.4GHz 2010 15" MBP, running 10.6
shutton 15y ago
Yeah, sitting at around 7% for me on a 2011 MBP i7, can't remember what it was before I upgraded. I've not noticed worse battery life though.
mjallday 15y ago
I found when I first ran pycharm it did some indexing for a few minutes before it settled down. That caused some spinning of fans and higher CPU usage.
andybak 15y ago
Here's a bug you can vote for: http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-84652?projectKey=IDEA http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-84652?projectKey=ID...

architgupta 15y ago

Non flame-bait question. I am mostly a VIM user. Are there people who do plug-ins on top of vim to get "similar" experience to PyCharm?

andrem 15y ago
I was looking for a similar solution and you will find your usual suspects: * https://github.com/klen/python-mode https://github.com/klen/python-mode * http://code.google.com/p/vim-python-ide/ http://code.google.com/p/vim-python-ide/ * http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide In the end ask yourself - which problem are you trying to solve by changing your IDE? If it can't be fixed in your current IDE, try something else. I ended up going with Pycharm using Vim key bindings as it was easier for me to work on different machines and OSes without having to worry too much about setting up my environment.
jomohke 15y ago
You need to write a full Python parser to get similar intelligence in vim - and it would be difficult to do smoothly given that vim plugins can't communicate with a long-running process as the code-assist emacs plugins do (which is my biggest complaint about modern vim). Alternatively, PyCharm has a vi plugin which isn't too bad (depending on which features of vim you expect).
- architgupta 15y ago
  Interesting. So emacs would be able to do this well I imagine. I'll look into the vi bindings support in PyCharm.
topka 15y ago
just FYI, PyCharm has a plugin for vim emulation mode.

jsvaughan 15y ago

FWIW if you are an intellij user you can install the jetbrains python plugin, which offers much of the same functionality: http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/PYH/PyCharm+vs.+IntelliJ+IDEA+Python+plugin+FAQ http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/PYH/PyCharm+vs.+Inte...

GvS 15y ago

>Sun JDK 1.6. (OpenJDK is not supported) On Ubuntu Sun JDK is not supported. I'll stick to free Aptana plugin for Eclipse.

topka 15y ago
You can install Sun JDK on Ubuntu. It's not a big deal. There are still some problems with using OpenJDK, which are being solved now. So, it will be supported someday too.
- nknight 15y ago
  Really? Because this issue is marked wontfix: http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-4763 http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-4763 I've noticed that to the extent JetBrains communicates at all, it has a highly irritating habit of marking issues wontfix and making content-free statements (sometimes passive aggressive at that) until they get publicly called on it, and suddenly it's a completely different attitude.
  - topka 15y ago
    It was 6 months ago. And it was a 100% wontfix then. But things change quite rapidly nowadays. Here's one problem solved: https://twitter.com/#!/eniton/statuses/186861528677494784 https://twitter.com/#!/eniton/statuses/186861528677494784. Maybe others can be solved too.
    - nknight 15y ago
      Six months ago, OpenJDK had already been declared the official reference implementation for Java SE 7 (for several months, in fact), and the OS Distributor License had already been withdrawn -- almost two months before that issue was closed. "Things change quite rapidly" indeed. Is JetBrains not able to keep up?
      - topka 15y ago
        Unfortunately, declaring something does not always really change things. Something else is often required. JetBrains team has its opinions but is also flexible enough to change its mind. And it has been keeping up quite good during the last 10+ years.

rkwz 15y ago

OT - I'm seeing more OSX based screenshots of cross-platform tools. Is it just for aesthetic purposes or is there a trend where more and more devs are starting to use Macs?

stevoski 15y ago
This has been a trend for years now. IMO, when Macs switched to Intel that was when the trend really picked up.
topka 15y ago
We found that screenshots on Mac _do_ look better most of the time. And yes, you can see the trend of more and more devs using Macs. Prooflink: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/228843/RailConf_Mac_vs_PC.jpg http://dl.dropbox.com/u/228843/RailConf_Mac_vs_PC.jpg That was shot at RailsConf, where historically more Macs are used, but this is quite general nowadays.
- nknight 15y ago
  I dug up this shot of PyCon JP 2011: http://www.ianlewis.org/media/img/662/audience.jpg http://www.ianlewis.org/media/img/662/audience.jpg I count at least 8 Macs, two more that may or may not be Macs. I don't see any blatantly non-Mac laptops. To be fair, I can't be sure it's not a session on, say, PyObjC, but I also found this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shimizukawa/6142969129/in/set-72157627536036671/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/shimizukawa/6142969129/in/set-7... Five Macs, possibly a sixth hiding behind one guy's head. Two non-Macs (one looks like a thinkpad and I think the one in the lower right is a vaio).
  - toyg 15y ago
    The trend is undeniable, but there's some selection bias in your post: people with Macs do tend to flaunt them around, especially at geek gatherings where you find a lot of contractors/independent/superstar/fashion-victim developers who have a say in the hardware they use. You don't see the thousands of corporate developers with work-issued laptops nor the academic working on "big rigs"; they're not all uber-hackers but they're not all shit either. Apple adoption is also lower in Europe due to higher prices compared to NA and Japan. Last few times I've been to (Euro) Python conventions, I was actually surprised to see a lot of really skilled guys doing real computation (3d, molecular modelling etc) while happily running Windows on their laptops.

rplnt 15y ago

Price of personal license is +25% for EU countries as opposed to US. I thought it's only game distributors who do this kind of thing.

toyg 15y ago
Personally I've found their price for Personal licenses to be very low -- in the Python world, ActiveState Komodo is $295, Wing IDE is $245, BlackAdder is the only one under $100 and it looks quite "underpowered" when compared to PyCharm. Regardless, they have promotions running for long periods, so it's easy to start with a trial and then pick up a real license when the price is lower -- the last one ended on 16 April and was 30% off, I got mine last September and it was 50% off. In general, for software like for everything else, prices reflect what the market will bear. We are willing to pay more, clearly. It's slightly embittering that in this case they cannot bring the usual "import taxes" justification, since they're based in Czech Republic.
- cjg_ 15y ago
  Based in the EU means they have to collect VAT for all EU customers. And the VAT amount depends on the volume of sales. If they sell more than a certain amount (€100k) to a specific country they can collect the VAT rate for the buyer country otherwise it is the seller country VAT. And the VAT seems to be 20% in Czech Republic. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#Distance_sales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#...)
  - rplnt 15y ago
    It specifically states that the price is without tax (tax excluded). I didn't proceed any further to see if it will be included in the later steps.
    - cjg_ 15y ago
      Checked my last receipt from them, 19% VAT was included in the total amount billed (this was 2011 and it was for Resharper). But the seem to sell it through a German company so I guess it is German VAT.

toyg 15y ago

One major gotcha they're still working on is PyQt support -- their introspection techniques tend to break very often when dealing with it, which results in a lot of unnecessary warnings and word-completion being spotty. I understand their main target market is web-developers (Django and GAE support looks good, now virtualenv is also dealt with in the proper way), but that's a niche that has been crying out loud for good tools for ages (ERIC is weak, sorry).

topka 15y ago
Seems there's a number of issues reported for PyQT in PyCharm tracker: http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues/PY?q=PyQT http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues/PY?q=PyQT You're welcome to add yours and vote for existing. Votes matter.

heyitsnick 15y ago

Big PyCharm fan. I have used all the major IDEs, both python specific and general, and I always found they got in the way more than the time-saving features they purported to offer. I always switched back to a basic text editor (Sublime Text). But then I found PyCharm and actually spent a weekend learning how to use it. It's a real pleasure to use. Intellisense stuff works very well, some of the refactoring features are excellent, and all the handy things like ctrl-enter to import things, ctrl-n/ctrl-shift-n to jump to different code in projects, really speeds up development. I still use Sublime Text for short scripts, but for any major projects i use PyCharm for everything. The django support (with debugging, including template debugging) is killer. Also my one interaction with the development has been excellent. I reported a bug (i did have to sign up to their bug track which was a bit of a nuisance), and the bug was fixed in a day and a new update with the fix pushed out to me within a week. Impressive iteration cycle given the size of the software.

denzil_correa 15y ago

Unfortunately they don't have an academic license.

autodafe 15y ago
They do: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic
- denzil_correa 15y ago
  Thanks!
peterfschaadt 15y ago
An academic license is $29 a year. If you qualify for a classroom license, it's free. http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/buy.jsp#academic