3 ms·

It is thoroughly documented, yet alot of people make spelling mistakes and we sometime make up animals to mock people who spell stuff "as it sounds in their hea

by mnsc 3y ago

It is thoroughly documented, yet alot of people make spelling mistakes and we sometime make up animals to mock people who spell stuff "as it sounds in their heads". And then there's people who are good spellers, whomst wouldn't blink twice or use Google when asked to spell "accommodate" or "nausaeus". Do you think that these mega spellers can document _how_ they spell correctly all the time? Or do you think they have some good intuition/tacit knowledge? English is my second language so I tried to make some funny mistakes above due to the topic, but there might also be some unwanted/undocumented ones thrown in for good measure.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> Do you think that these mega spellers can document _how_ they spell correctly all the time? At least in my native language, I can typically explain the rules why a word is spelled the way it is. The simple reason for this is that I am interested in the structure of languages. The typical reason that I experience among other people why they spell words wrong is that they are less interested in this topic.
- chongli 3y ago
  There are rules for English spelling. They’re just extremely complicated because English, in addition to all its Anglo-Saxon native words, has many loanwords from other languages: Norman French, Latin, Greek, German, and many more. To spell a word correctly it really helps to be able to identify its language of origin. If you watch the Scripps national spelling bee, you’ll regularly see the spellers asking about this information. Of course, tons of everyday great spellers don’t know about any of this stuff explicitly. They just seem to tacitly have a “feel” for the language of origin and are thus able to spell many words when first hearing them.
  - nyrikki 3y ago
    Lots of words have odd spelling due to false etymologies. Scissors, Island, Ache, and Could; were all from old English with random letters added by people in the 15th century who mistakenly thought they were from Latin. Etymology is hard, and most textbook writers and teachers who invented the rules weren't qualified to actually find the true origin. English accumulated a multitude of inconsistent spelling patterns, some from loan words, some from shift how words pronounced from vowel shifts, yod-dropping, and random reform attempts which weren't often based on rigourous evidence of origin. It was an etymological fallacy that drove those spelling reforms to 'correct' the spelling anyway. There is no real value in keeping the k in knife when the sound was dropped as an example.
    - chongli 3y ago
      Lots of words have odd spelling due to false etymologies. That's true as well. It was an etymological fallacy that drove those spelling reforms to 'correct' the spelling anyway. There is no real value in keeping the k in knife when the sound was dropped as an example. To me, these two statements suggest opposite recommendations. The first tells us that we should be cautious of prescriptive changes to spelling. The second that we should go ahead and drop the k in knife (and presumably change the spelling on all other words to be more phonetic). I am inclined to be conservative here [1]. I found Mark Twain's satirical piece on the issue [2] rather persuasive. Like it or not, those old prescriptivists' changes have become part of the etymology. Making further changes for the sake of easier spelling would only complicate the etymology even further, and make it even harder for future English-speakers to read the texts of today. [1] https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ [2] https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/twain.html https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/twain.html
watwut 3y ago
A lot of then simply remember well. That is not tacit knowledge, that is explicite knowledge.

by mnsc 3y ago

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> Do you think that these mega spellers can document _how_ they spell correctly all the time? At least in my native language, I can typically explain the rules why a word is spelled the way it is. The simple reason for this is that I am interested in the structure of languages. The typical reason that I experience among other people why they spell words wrong is that they are less interested in this topic.

chongli 3y ago
There are rules for English spelling. They’re just extremely complicated because English, in addition to all its Anglo-Saxon native words, has many loanwords from other languages: Norman French, Latin, Greek, German, and many more. To spell a word correctly it really helps to be able to identify its language of origin. If you watch the Scripps national spelling bee, you’ll regularly see the spellers asking about this information. Of course, tons of everyday great spellers don’t know about any of this stuff explicitly. They just seem to tacitly have a “feel” for the language of origin and are thus able to spell many words when first hearing them.
- nyrikki 3y ago
  Lots of words have odd spelling due to false etymologies. Scissors, Island, Ache, and Could; were all from old English with random letters added by people in the 15th century who mistakenly thought they were from Latin. Etymology is hard, and most textbook writers and teachers who invented the rules weren't qualified to actually find the true origin. English accumulated a multitude of inconsistent spelling patterns, some from loan words, some from shift how words pronounced from vowel shifts, yod-dropping, and random reform attempts which weren't often based on rigourous evidence of origin. It was an etymological fallacy that drove those spelling reforms to 'correct' the spelling anyway. There is no real value in keeping the k in knife when the sound was dropped as an example.
  - chongli 3y ago
    Lots of words have odd spelling due to false etymologies. That's true as well. It was an etymological fallacy that drove those spelling reforms to 'correct' the spelling anyway. There is no real value in keeping the k in knife when the sound was dropped as an example. To me, these two statements suggest opposite recommendations. The first tells us that we should be cautious of prescriptive changes to spelling. The second that we should go ahead and drop the k in knife (and presumably change the spelling on all other words to be more phonetic). I am inclined to be conservative here [1]. I found Mark Twain's satirical piece on the issue [2] rather persuasive. Like it or not, those old prescriptivists' changes have become part of the etymology. Making further changes for the sake of easier spelling would only complicate the etymology even further, and make it even harder for future English-speakers to read the texts of today. [1] https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ [2] https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/twain.html https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/twain.html

watwut 3y ago

A lot of then simply remember well. That is not tacit knowledge, that is explicite knowledge.