Thank you, that is an interesting response to read, but what I was trying to communicate with that sentence was that if you read that thread and others in good

Thank you, that is an interesting response to read, but what I was trying to communicate with that sentence was that if you read that thread and others in good faith you can get a fairly nuanced picture and not that it is one in and of itself. I am certainly not implying that you get a nuanced picture from simply reading a mailing list which I described as being littered with rants in the very same sentence that you quoted parts of. As for the linked thread itself, I just ignored the "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" parts (it gets old really fast) and what I arrived it is largely reflected in what I already wrote in the parent and ancestors.