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The same telecom industry that got hundreds of billions to build out Fiber Optic networks around the country? The same telecom industry that took those hundred

The same telecom industry that got hundreds of billions to build out Fiber Optic networks around the country? The same telecom industry that took those hundreds of billions and spent them on lawsuits against the government, on wooing lobbyists and padding executive salaries instead of actually doing the work they told the government they would do? Now they are mad because their blatant price gouging and shitty service is going to be laid bare for all to see? Oh gee, my heart breaks for them.

praptak 3y ago
"And the principle of really existing free market theory is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me. That’s, again, near a universal. So you — whoever you may be — you have to learn responsibility, and be subjected to market discipline, it’s good for your character, it’s tough love, and so on, and so forth. But me, I need the nanny State, to protect me from market discipline, so that I’ll be able to rant and rave about the marvels of the free market, while I’m getting properly subsidized and defended by everyone else, through the nanny State." Chomsky, "Free Market Fantasies"
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  There is absolutely nothing free about utility markets. They are much closer to Chomsky's nanny state than any free market ideology.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
thedanbob 3y ago
AT&T recently (edit: actually almost 2 years ago) laid a new fiber line that runs right under our driveway. They put fliers in all the local mailboxes advertising fiber. But if you go on their site and put in any of the addresses on our street, oops, fiber isn't available. Our Cox cable service went down for two days last week. When the guy finally came out to fix it, he confirmed what I had already guessed: our line was literally just unplugged at the junction box. I'm so sick of all their crap I'm tempted to switch to a local fixed wireless company. On paper it's a worse deal than I have now, but if as I've heard they don't give you any BS, that's a strong selling point.
- all2 3y ago
  Our internet was out for a week recently, so I bought Starlink. It's cheaper and faster than anything else available out here.
- toast0 3y ago
  > AT&T recently laid a new fiber line that runs right under our driveway. They put fliers in all the local mailboxes advertising fiber. But if you go on their site and put in any of the addresses on our street, oops, fiber isn't available. When ATT ran fiber on my street, it took about 3-4 months before you could order. IIRC, they ran the bulk fiber before all the rest of the outside equipment was installed. It'd be nice if they didn't do fliers until they're ready to take orders though.
  - doctorpangloss 3y ago
    As long as it costs tens of thousands of dollars to trench to a single home; and as long as aerial utilities remain the least regulated, but somehow still not sensibly regulated, you cannot deliver fiber cheaply to Californians.
    - toast0 3y ago
      It's not that expensive if you only deliver to customers served by aerial utilities, and you have access to poles and understand how to get easements for outside equipment. And you expect to serve a significant fraction of dwellings passed. I don't think AT&T was secretly planning for years and years to rewire my neighborhood for fiber; they were just well prepared with then information and expertise to get it done. I think they saw Google announce service upcoming in 15 cities or whatever, and figured they would need fiber in those cities as well, then they took their existing maps to figure out where they needed outside equipment, set their lawyers ro getting or expanding easements, and once those were set, they sent an order to Corning for GPON cables with drops at measured lengths for each pole. Easy and cheap for ATT. Unless you have underground utilities. It's not easy and cheap for upstarts because you don't have access to the poles, and you don't have field maps, and you're unlikely to serve a significant number of customers that you pass. It's not easy and cheap for anyone if utilities are undergrounded, because encapsulating your infrastructure makes costs start at about 3x the cost of aerial buildouts, and it gets much worse if you hit other utilities when you dig. Best case, a lot of manual digging; worse case, you need to call out another utility to do an emergency repair; worst case, you cause an explosion. Plus your burried utilities are at risk of being damaged and needing repair during other utility work. Wires on poles are at risk too, but at least it's easy to access them for repairs. One day maybe, they'll tear down their copper that's rotting on the same poles. Maybe when copper scrap value is high.
JoshTko 3y ago
Classic wealth transfer from everyone to the wealthy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

praptak 3y ago

"And the principle of really existing free market theory is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me. That’s, again, near a universal. So you — whoever you may be — you have to learn responsibility, and be subjected to market discipline, it’s good for your character, it’s tough love, and so on, and so forth. But me, I need the nanny State, to protect me from market discipline, so that I’ll be able to rant and rave about the marvels of the free market, while I’m getting properly subsidized and defended by everyone else, through the nanny State." Chomsky, "Free Market Fantasies"

HDThoreaun 3y ago
There is absolutely nothing free about utility markets. They are much closer to Chomsky's nanny state than any free market ideology.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

thedanbob 3y ago

AT&T recently (edit: actually almost 2 years ago) laid a new fiber line that runs right under our driveway. They put fliers in all the local mailboxes advertising fiber. But if you go on their site and put in any of the addresses on our street, oops, fiber isn't available. Our Cox cable service went down for two days last week. When the guy finally came out to fix it, he confirmed what I had already guessed: our line was literally just unplugged at the junction box. I'm so sick of all their crap I'm tempted to switch to a local fixed wireless company. On paper it's a worse deal than I have now, but if as I've heard they don't give you any BS, that's a strong selling point.

all2 3y ago
Our internet was out for a week recently, so I bought Starlink. It's cheaper and faster than anything else available out here.
toast0 3y ago
> AT&T recently laid a new fiber line that runs right under our driveway. They put fliers in all the local mailboxes advertising fiber. But if you go on their site and put in any of the addresses on our street, oops, fiber isn't available. When ATT ran fiber on my street, it took about 3-4 months before you could order. IIRC, they ran the bulk fiber before all the rest of the outside equipment was installed. It'd be nice if they didn't do fliers until they're ready to take orders though.
- doctorpangloss 3y ago
  As long as it costs tens of thousands of dollars to trench to a single home; and as long as aerial utilities remain the least regulated, but somehow still not sensibly regulated, you cannot deliver fiber cheaply to Californians.
  - toast0 3y ago
    It's not that expensive if you only deliver to customers served by aerial utilities, and you have access to poles and understand how to get easements for outside equipment. And you expect to serve a significant fraction of dwellings passed. I don't think AT&T was secretly planning for years and years to rewire my neighborhood for fiber; they were just well prepared with then information and expertise to get it done. I think they saw Google announce service upcoming in 15 cities or whatever, and figured they would need fiber in those cities as well, then they took their existing maps to figure out where they needed outside equipment, set their lawyers ro getting or expanding easements, and once those were set, they sent an order to Corning for GPON cables with drops at measured lengths for each pole. Easy and cheap for ATT. Unless you have underground utilities. It's not easy and cheap for upstarts because you don't have access to the poles, and you don't have field maps, and you're unlikely to serve a significant number of customers that you pass. It's not easy and cheap for anyone if utilities are undergrounded, because encapsulating your infrastructure makes costs start at about 3x the cost of aerial buildouts, and it gets much worse if you hit other utilities when you dig. Best case, a lot of manual digging; worse case, you need to call out another utility to do an emergency repair; worst case, you cause an explosion. Plus your burried utilities are at risk of being damaged and needing repair during other utility work. Wires on poles are at risk too, but at least it's easy to access them for repairs. One day maybe, they'll tear down their copper that's rotting on the same poles. Maybe when copper scrap value is high.

JoshTko 3y ago

Classic wealth transfer from everyone to the wealthy.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]