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No. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. We cannot have unprotected, open borders for decades, and then expect to identify and track foreign internal threat
by howmayiannoyyou 3y ago
No. We cannot have our cake and eat it too.
We cannot have unprotected, open borders for decades, and then expect to identify and track foreign internal threats AND not provide the USGOV the means to detect and surveil.
We cannot assume that because we're an HN regular who thinks power corrupts (it certainly does) the cost of that corruption is greater than what we pay if/when a foreign adversary acts against the US.
We simply cannot fulfill our obligations to our citizens or our allies if we cannot protect our home.
We cannot have it all. Welcome to the ugly real world.
- kingkawn 3y agoSo lets give up the "destructive expansionist ambitions lead to global threats" part
- stronglikedan 3y agoNo. We can. Protect the citizens' rights. Detect and surveil non-citizens as a result of open borders all they want, but don't trample on the rights of the citizens in the name of safety.
- vGPU 3y agoOk, so let’s deport everyone who came in through said unprotected open borders. That’s literally why borders exist. To keep foreign threats… foreign.
- daveguy 3y agoWeird how the most prominent example of terrorism on American soil from foreign agents was perpetrated with completely legal non-land-border penetration. Seems like we have locals lot more dangerous than anyone coming through the land border with Mexico to work or seek asylum in the US. Actual foreign terrorists just aren't as ignorant as you want them to be.
- seanw444 3y agoOkay so your solution is: open borders and heavier government surveillance to balance it? Fantastic.
- daveguy 3y agoI think you missed the point.
- Levitz 3y agoSo what? Sorry but this is not even a bad argument, it's just not an argument at all. Most shootings are not in schools, so school shootings aren't a problem? Most drug addictions come from prescribed drugs, so heroin and fentanyl being sold on the street is fine?
- zdragnar 3y agoIn 2023, more than 160 people on the terror watch list have been caught illegally crossing US borders: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/number-people-terror-watchlist-stopped-mexico-us-border-risen-rcna105095 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/number-pe... Given that there are 600,000 who were observed entering but got away in 2023 alone, and more were likely crossing unobserved, there's very good odds that they are already here.
- daveguy 3y agoAnd yet we still only have the handful of incidents from foreigners, most of which come over legally anyway. Right wingers have been fearmingering about foreigners for decades. Are they just using illegal entry now when they didn't before and waiting a really long time? You do know domestic terrorism is just as common as foreign terrorism in the US, right?
- electrondood 3y agoExactly, this "open borders" nonsense is a right-wing talking point, like "fiscal responsibility." It sounds great in TV interviews and speeches, but they mysteriously only trot out when there's a democrat in the Oval Office.
- ejb999 3y agois that why the republican mayor of NYC is loudly sounding the alarm on this? my mistake, he is a democrat.
- vGPU 3y agoSo… close the borders. Completely.
- electrondood 3y agoFun fact, "open borders" is a complete myth.
- ejb999 3y agofun fact, no its not.
- SpaceL10n 3y agoFun fact, all those helicopters, horse patrols, infrared cameras, drones, aid groups, and vigilantes are fake news. Hacker news is better than this, everyone.
- tosstoyevsky 3y agoGood point.
- gorwell 3y agoComplete myth is a stretch isn't it? "closed border" doesn't pass the sniff test either.
- ink_13 3y agoThose are not the only choices. A border can be controlled.
- oh_sigh 3y agoWell, our borders might be legally closed, but with 2.2 million people illegally crossing them from the southern border per year, that is the entire population of Houston, maybe it's fair to say they're closed but effectively open. Coupled with the fact that if you're caught, you can just say you're claiming asylum and you get to stay.
- ink_13 3y agoThey are not "legally closed", they are controlled. A closed border permits no crossings, which is clearly not the state of reality.