4 ms·

When someone comes to your store and says "I'll wreck your store unless you cut me 30% of your revenue" that's the mafia. When someone comes to your store and

When someone comes to your store and says "I'll wreck your store unless you cut me 30% of your revenue" that's the mafia. When someone comes to your store and says "I made the streets and regulate the power, water supply, sewer, and everything else in this place, cut me 30% of your revenue in taxes" that's the government. And you'd do well to not confuse those so haphazardly. Apple didn't come to your app and with no cause blackmail you to get your money. They created an ecosystem that did not exist before, and they have to maintain it. Paying for it is completely rational.

cyberax 3y ago
> When someone comes to your store and says "I'll wreck your store unless you cut me 30% of your revenue" that's the mafia. That's exactly what Apple does. If you make a mobile app (for example, a presentation manager) you _have_ to support iOS, or you will go out of business. As a developer, you simply don't have a choice. You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely.
- mcphage 3y ago
  > You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely. What? That’s not true. There are plenty of Android-only developers.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    Any example of a major Android-only app for the US?
    - zappb 3y ago
      Beeper Mini, Fortnight, several Google apps.
      - cyberax 3y ago
        Keyword: major. Fortnight is the only example, and it's on its way to SCOTUS. Google apps, which one?
        ryao 3y ago
        Fortnite has an iOS version. They just stopped being able to update it because of Epic's shenanigans.
      - tavavex 3y ago
        Not gonna lie, all of these examples are pretty weak because all of them are in circumstances that 99% of developers are never going to be in. Beeper Mini replicates native iOS functionality - it's obvious why it can only exist as an Android-only app. Fortnite is the product of a massive studio, whose decision of not publishing it on iOS was deliberate as part of their anti-monopoly lawsuits. They can easily afford to do it because Epic Games has other revenue sources, alongside with running Fortnite on pretty much every other platform imaginable. Google doesn't really cash in on their more niche apps, publishing them on iOS is unlikely to change anything for them. However, not choosing to publish them gives Android - their own product - a tiny boost in appeal due to exclusive functionality.
    - mojoe 3y ago
      You said "As a developer", not "As a major developer".
    - mcphage 3y ago
      Major? Probably not many; once you're a major developer, you'll go wherever there's money to be made. That doesn't mean it isn't possible to skip iOS—but unless you have some philosophical objection to it, there's no reason why you would. But anyway, you said "As a developer..." not "As a major developer...".
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
  Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you? By your logic there would be no towns, cities, countries, unions, companies, any kind of organization at all. Because any time you need to pay for something, you feel like it's the mafia. - Is it the mafia when it comes time to pay time for rent. "I HAVE to pay rent or I'll be kicked out on the street!" - Is it the mafia when it comes time to pay your bill at a restaurant. "I HAVE to pay my bill or I'll be hungry!" No one owes you anything. You ask for money for your apps, don't you? Because why are you complaining otherwise? 40% of $0 is $0, isn't it? But you require money, despite maybe someone could be like "you're mafia unless I can play your game for free". Things cost money. Grow up and start acting like an adult.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    > Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you? Are you a part of mafia? How else would you defend Apple that is bent on destruction?
    - 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
      Isn’t this site supposed to have at least semi-intelligent people?
- JieJie 3y ago
  You could, however, give as much of the product away as you can for free (less $100 a year for developer account) and then Apple is basically paying you to distribute it on their platform. That's definitely not the mafia. If you want to charge money, Apple will collect it for you and take a cut. If you don't want that deal, you can still distribute your app for free, you just can't charge money for it in the app. You can still charge money for the service, but you have to do that on your own website and infrastructure (a la Netflix, etc.), not Apple's.
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    I'm not up to date on Apple's current rules, but for years they have strictly forbidden you from directing users to your website to complete a purchase. You weren't even allowed to mention any other payment options in the app.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    > If you want to charge money, Apple will collect it for you and take a cut. If you don't want that deal, you can still distribute your app for free, you just can't charge money for it in the app Basically, you can't make money. Duh. You can't even place a link for a third-party payment system (the case to allow that is on its way to SCOTUS). Apple is a mafia.
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      > Basically, you can't make money. Worse, you can't make money and you have to pay the $100 developer fee every year. The developer fee is trivial if it's a business expensive, but quite expensive otherwise!
    - 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
      "They want money from my app when I want money from their store! Therefore I'm a victim and they're a mafia." Seems to me you're not noticing the Kremlin levels of cognitive dissonance in your statement here. With this severe lack of self-awareness, if you were in Apple's place you'd be way worse than they are right now.
lancesells 3y ago
There's some nuance to the 30% fee. Under $1M in revenue it's 15% and after a year it's 15%. No fee for free apps. No fee for physical things. 30% is way too high. 15% seems high as well without knowing the costs or benefits of the App Store.
mvdtnz 3y ago
Wait a second are you saying Apple is a government unto itself?
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
  They govern the iOS platform.
- rpmisms 3y ago
  They have more money and effective power than most governments worldwide.
root_axis 3y ago
I don't think likening Apple's stranglehold on users to the authority of a government helps your case.
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
  I don't think likening Apple's authority over its own platforms to the government's stranglehold on citizens helps your case. Am I doing this right?
  - root_axis 3y ago
    I didn't liken Apple to a government, you did. > Am I doing this right? No.
    - 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
      Likening it to a government given every company has a domain over its own products and services, makes a lot more sense than likening it to a mafia which doesn't come to contribute, but only to take. Apple allows you to ship infinite amount of apps at no cost, if you don't in return ask the store for money. What kind of a mafia works like that?

cyberax 3y ago

> When someone comes to your store and says "I'll wreck your store unless you cut me 30% of your revenue" that's the mafia. That's exactly what Apple does. If you make a mobile app (for example, a presentation manager) you _have_ to support iOS, or you will go out of business. As a developer, you simply don't have a choice. You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely.

mcphage 3y ago
> You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely. What? That’s not true. There are plenty of Android-only developers.
- cyberax 3y ago
  Any example of a major Android-only app for the US?
  - zappb 3y ago
    Beeper Mini, Fortnight, several Google apps.
    - cyberax 3y ago
      Keyword: major. Fortnight is the only example, and it's on its way to SCOTUS. Google apps, which one?
      - ryao 3y ago
        Fortnite has an iOS version. They just stopped being able to update it because of Epic's shenanigans.
    - tavavex 3y ago
      Not gonna lie, all of these examples are pretty weak because all of them are in circumstances that 99% of developers are never going to be in. Beeper Mini replicates native iOS functionality - it's obvious why it can only exist as an Android-only app. Fortnite is the product of a massive studio, whose decision of not publishing it on iOS was deliberate as part of their anti-monopoly lawsuits. They can easily afford to do it because Epic Games has other revenue sources, alongside with running Fortnite on pretty much every other platform imaginable. Google doesn't really cash in on their more niche apps, publishing them on iOS is unlikely to change anything for them. However, not choosing to publish them gives Android - their own product - a tiny boost in appeal due to exclusive functionality.
  - mojoe 3y ago
    You said "As a developer", not "As a major developer".
  - mcphage 3y ago
    Major? Probably not many; once you're a major developer, you'll go wherever there's money to be made. That doesn't mean it isn't possible to skip iOS—but unless you have some philosophical objection to it, there's no reason why you would. But anyway, you said "As a developer..." not "As a major developer...".
3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you? By your logic there would be no towns, cities, countries, unions, companies, any kind of organization at all. Because any time you need to pay for something, you feel like it's the mafia. - Is it the mafia when it comes time to pay time for rent. "I HAVE to pay rent or I'll be kicked out on the street!" - Is it the mafia when it comes time to pay your bill at a restaurant. "I HAVE to pay my bill or I'll be hungry!" No one owes you anything. You ask for money for your apps, don't you? Because why are you complaining otherwise? 40% of $0 is $0, isn't it? But you require money, despite maybe someone could be like "you're mafia unless I can play your game for free". Things cost money. Grow up and start acting like an adult.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you? Are you a part of mafia? How else would you defend Apple that is bent on destruction?
  - 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
    Isn’t this site supposed to have at least semi-intelligent people?
JieJie 3y ago
You could, however, give as much of the product away as you can for free (less $100 a year for developer account) and then Apple is basically paying you to distribute it on their platform. That's definitely not the mafia. If you want to charge money, Apple will collect it for you and take a cut. If you don't want that deal, you can still distribute your app for free, you just can't charge money for it in the app. You can still charge money for the service, but you have to do that on your own website and infrastructure (a la Netflix, etc.), not Apple's.
- dns_snek 3y ago
  I'm not up to date on Apple's current rules, but for years they have strictly forbidden you from directing users to your website to complete a purchase. You weren't even allowed to mention any other payment options in the app.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > If you want to charge money, Apple will collect it for you and take a cut. If you don't want that deal, you can still distribute your app for free, you just can't charge money for it in the app Basically, you can't make money. Duh. You can't even place a link for a third-party payment system (the case to allow that is on its way to SCOTUS). Apple is a mafia.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    > Basically, you can't make money. Worse, you can't make money and you have to pay the $100 developer fee every year. The developer fee is trivial if it's a business expensive, but quite expensive otherwise!
  - 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
    "They want money from my app when I want money from their store! Therefore I'm a victim and they're a mafia." Seems to me you're not noticing the Kremlin levels of cognitive dissonance in your statement here. With this severe lack of self-awareness, if you were in Apple's place you'd be way worse than they are right now.

lancesells 3y ago

There's some nuance to the 30% fee. Under $1M in revenue it's 15% and after a year it's 15%. No fee for free apps. No fee for physical things. 30% is way too high. 15% seems high as well without knowing the costs or benefits of the App Store.

mvdtnz 3y ago

Wait a second are you saying Apple is a government unto itself?

3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
They govern the iOS platform.
rpmisms 3y ago
They have more money and effective power than most governments worldwide.

root_axis 3y ago

I don't think likening Apple's stranglehold on users to the authority of a government helps your case.

3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
I don't think likening Apple's authority over its own platforms to the government's stranglehold on citizens helps your case. Am I doing this right?
- root_axis 3y ago
  I didn't liken Apple to a government, you did. > Am I doing this right? No.
  - 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
    Likening it to a government given every company has a domain over its own products and services, makes a lot more sense than likening it to a mafia which doesn't come to contribute, but only to take. Apple allows you to ship infinite amount of apps at no cost, if you don't in return ask the store for money. What kind of a mafia works like that?