3 ms·

I don’t think this is it. A lot of the unhoused in Seattle are locals or in state, and many of the out of state are from neighboring states such as Idaho or oth

I don’t think this is it. A lot of the unhoused in Seattle are locals or in state, and many of the out of state are from neighboring states such as Idaho or other West Coast states. Rather I think the problem is that half assed decriminalization efforts simply aren’t enough and that drug overdose has become a much more severe issue because of the opioid epidemic and the proliferation of fentanyl. What needs to happen for decriminalization to work is much better social support for addicts, including safe use sites staffed with nurses, free health care for addicts including detox hospitalization and substance abuse treatments, social housing including housing specifically for recovering addicts and active addicts. In addition full legalization and regulated drug markets (preferably via pharmacies with a strict non-profit motive) wouldn’t hurt either. What Seattle has done is basically just decriminalization without any of the support needed to go with it. Yes we support addicts and spend a lot of money on their care, however these are all suffering from austerity and are often just post-hoc measures (which often cost more in the long run).

rnk 3y ago
Yes, for Seattle a key issue is there is hardly any supporting services available for the mass of people who need it. There are just a lot of people needing services. Seattle also has a huge shortage of mental health treatment professionals. You can't just start working with one of them, you have to wait for months on a waiting list. There's not nearly housing at night. So you have fentanyl, not much housing, not much treatment, not enough hospital space. People get addicted, at least some move here when addicted and then they are stuck. It's also not just a seattle problem. Alaska has also been struggling with lots of deaths from drug abuse or overdose. Wasilla - https://alaskapublic.org/2023/04/10/troopers-warn-of-lethal-batch-of-drugs-in-mat-su-after-3-overdose-deaths-in-24-hours/ https://alaskapublic.org/2023/04/10/troopers-warn-of-lethal-..., Anchorage - https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/anchorage/2023/07/27/anchorage-surpasses-homeless-outdoor-deaths-record-reports-6-deaths-in-less-than-a-week/ https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/anchorage/2023/07/27/anchora...
eloisius 3y ago
> What needs to happen for decriminalization to work is much better social support for addicts, including safe use sites staffed with nurses, free health care for addicts including detox hospitalization and substance abuse treatments, social housing including housing specifically for recovering addicts and active addicts How many productive members of society does it take to support each drug addict? Should there be any calculation, or should we say "whatever it takes"?
- runarberg 3y ago
  Yes, whatever it takes. A society which doesn’t take care of their sick is a failed society. Seattle is the richest city in one of the richest state of the richest country in the world. If we wanted to we could easily take care of anyone that needed it.
  - eloisius 3y ago
    At some point we have to say it takes too much. If it takes 20 college-educated social workers, medical professionals, etc. just to enable one junkie to eek out a miserable existence doing drugs and sleeping on the street, it's too much. Their lifestyle is untenable. On some level, we have to accept that one can fuck up one's own life, and fuck it up so badly that others can't fix or maintain it for you.
    - defrost 3y ago
      Sure, it's a cost benefit analysis. More realistically smaller total staff than 20 dealt with 3,800 addicts in an 18 month trial a decade and a half ago with benefits to the community (reduced expenses from deaths, overdoses, central record keeping, etc) that were considered worthwhile to keep such centres going until the present day. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38608095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38608095 FINAL REPORT OF THE EVALUATION OF THE SYDNEY MEDICALLY SUPERVISED INJECTING CENTRE https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/5706/1/MSIC_final_evaluation_report.pdf https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/5706/1/MSIC_final_evaluation_... might be of interest to some.
- NoGravitas 3y ago
  "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. "
  - eloisius 3y ago
    So “old book says so”?

rnk 3y ago

Yes, for Seattle a key issue is there is hardly any supporting services available for the mass of people who need it. There are just a lot of people needing services. Seattle also has a huge shortage of mental health treatment professionals. You can't just start working with one of them, you have to wait for months on a waiting list. There's not nearly housing at night. So you have fentanyl, not much housing, not much treatment, not enough hospital space. People get addicted, at least some move here when addicted and then they are stuck. It's also not just a seattle problem. Alaska has also been struggling with lots of deaths from drug abuse or overdose. Wasilla - https://alaskapublic.org/2023/04/10/troopers-warn-of-lethal-batch-of-drugs-in-mat-su-after-3-overdose-deaths-in-24-hours/ https://alaskapublic.org/2023/04/10/troopers-warn-of-lethal-..., Anchorage - https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/anchorage/2023/07/27/anchorage-surpasses-homeless-outdoor-deaths-record-reports-6-deaths-in-less-than-a-week/ https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/anchorage/2023/07/27/anchora...

eloisius 3y ago

> What needs to happen for decriminalization to work is much better social support for addicts, including safe use sites staffed with nurses, free health care for addicts including detox hospitalization and substance abuse treatments, social housing including housing specifically for recovering addicts and active addicts How many productive members of society does it take to support each drug addict? Should there be any calculation, or should we say "whatever it takes"?

runarberg 3y ago
Yes, whatever it takes. A society which doesn’t take care of their sick is a failed society. Seattle is the richest city in one of the richest state of the richest country in the world. If we wanted to we could easily take care of anyone that needed it.
- eloisius 3y ago
  At some point we have to say it takes too much. If it takes 20 college-educated social workers, medical professionals, etc. just to enable one junkie to eek out a miserable existence doing drugs and sleeping on the street, it's too much. Their lifestyle is untenable. On some level, we have to accept that one can fuck up one's own life, and fuck it up so badly that others can't fix or maintain it for you.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Sure, it's a cost benefit analysis. More realistically smaller total staff than 20 dealt with 3,800 addicts in an 18 month trial a decade and a half ago with benefits to the community (reduced expenses from deaths, overdoses, central record keeping, etc) that were considered worthwhile to keep such centres going until the present day. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38608095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38608095 FINAL REPORT OF THE EVALUATION OF THE SYDNEY MEDICALLY SUPERVISED INJECTING CENTRE https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/5706/1/MSIC_final_evaluation_report.pdf https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/5706/1/MSIC_final_evaluation_... might be of interest to some.
NoGravitas 3y ago
"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. "
- eloisius 3y ago
  So “old book says so”?