7 ms·

"Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc." This is not even remotely true. Everyone in the city, fr

"Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc." This is not even remotely true. Everyone in the city, from the mayor [1] to the head of the largest services non-profit [2] has been yelling from the rooftops about the glacial slowness to effectively spend the allocated funding for drug treatment. Until just months ago, Multnomah County has been sitting on tens of millions of unspent funds,[3] and has been perpetually criticized for spending on harm reduction instead of treatment.[4] We actually closed the only local sobering center in 2020! 1. https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2023/03/20/wheeler-slams-measure-110-for-slow-rollout-of-addiction-treatment-funds/ https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2023/03/20/wheeler-slams-mea... 2. https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/11/15/the-ceo-of-portlands-largest-social-services-nonprofit-says-things-are-really-bad-now-he-has-the-data-to-prove-it/ https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/11/15/the-ceo-of-portlands-l... 3. https://katu.com/news/local/multnomah-county-chair-fast-tracks-funding-for-homelessness-behavioral-health-services-sobering-stabilization-beds-portland-oregon-homeless-crisis https://katu.com/news/local/multnomah-county-chair-fast-trac... 4. https://www.kptv.com/2023/07/08/multnomah-county-implementing-new-harm-reduction-plan/ https://www.kptv.com/2023/07/08/multnomah-county-implementin...

Spinnaker_ 3y ago
Right, but the plan has still failed. If all the key players are on board and you can't even begin to implement the plan, then it was a bad plan, and the people who developed it had little comprehension of reality. We should not attempt this elsewhere.
- swalling 3y ago
  No, actually we should be trying to fix the stupid mistakes that were made in implementation of the plan, not roll it back and keep on fighting an equally moronic, ineffective, and racist War on Drugs elsewhere. The best available evidence is that decriminalization essentially had no effect on overdose deaths (https://www.opb.org/article/2023/10/03/ballot-measure-110-did-not-lead-to-more-fatal-overdoses-study-finds/ https://www.opb.org/article/2023/10/03/ballot-measure-110-di...). It was going to go up no matter what because of the nature of fentanyl. The only thing the failure of Measure 110 has demonstrably done is waste taxpayer funds and give businesses in downtown an excuse for why they are failing (when in reality it has more to do with the death of downtown for purely economic reasons post-COVID, just like other major West Coast cities).
  - uoaei 3y ago
    This is the classic approach of conservatives: throw wrenches in every part of a welfare system, then point to its failures to justify its dissolution. See: Medicare, public education, etc.
    - achierius 3y ago
      The conservatives who run Portland and Oregon?
      - uoaei 3y ago
        You will note of course that the rules and regulations around how to implement these things are always 'bipartisan' and meant to stir up as little backlash as possible. There's many opportunities to install bottlenecks and roadblocks in systems that end up shaping the entire way they function. To some extent it is progressives anticipating conservative backlash but there's plenty of lines in plenty of laws written into and insisted on by conservatives that have wide-ranging consequences. Reductionist perspectives on how politics works always end up at this "one side is dominating the other" kind of narrative but it's never actually that way, both sides still have a lot of influence on the various specifics of the outcome.
        yanderekko 3y ago
        Are you seriously attributing public sector bureaucratic dysfunction to some sort of subversive public sector conservative operatives, or vague regulatory poison pills that you cannot actually point to here? It seems a lot more intuitive to believe that you cannot just legislate that all government employees act selflessly towards the Greater Good, and the Homeless Industrial complex is a real thing that is not necessarily working in the interests of the public. Observing waste, fraud, and abuse and reflexively saying "this must be the fault of conservatives somehow" is just sorta sad.
        spicymapotofu 3y ago
- halestock 3y ago
  There are a million reasons a plan like could fail that have nothing to do with with it being a good or bad plan, though. And there are a lot of people invested in making sure a plan like this fails, so that the people who supported it in the first place come to the same conclusion as you.
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  “They did everything except what would work! Let’s all give up and go back to things that definitely don’t work. It’s the only option.”
  - hatefulmoron 3y ago
    It's always interesting when someone assumes that failed strategy X would have obviously worked if only had it been pursued even harder.. you might be right, but it seems like an odd assumption to make given the circumstance.
    - lazyasciiart 3y ago
      What circumstance? The clamor to use prison time as a solution to homelessness and drug use?
      - hatefulmoron 3y ago
        You know what thread we're in, right? You know what circumstances I'm referring to..
        hhh 3y ago
        People generally don’t ask you to clarify if they know what you’re talking about.
        hatefulmoron 3y ago
        That's interesting, cheers
        karpatic 3y ago
        Appropriate response.
        qvrjuec 3y ago
- alostpuppy 3y ago
  So this might be a problem specific to Portland. The government is structured to fail. Hopefully it changes.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
So, how and why are they "sitting on unspent funds"? Are there delays in building plans or legislature slowing stuff down?
bitcharmer 3y ago
Appreciate your comment. Terrifyingly high number of commenters (likely Americans) drawing flawed conclusions. We tried and failed, therefore this problem is unsolvable. Dozens of cities in other parts of the world had much success, so maybe you're doing it wrong? Zurich did a great job, especially with the transformation of the infamous needle park.
- jonfw 3y ago
  Doing some research on needle park- it looks like the experiments with allowing drug use were a massive failure, absolutely ruining the park, and it was ultimately cleaned up by law enforcement
  - bafe 3y ago
    the quote is missing what happened after the Platzpitz and later the older Letten train station were cleared: heroin use was decriminalised - not legalised - but only in controlled locations under supervision from medical staff and social workers. It seems that solution helped in multiple ways: - no people using heroin on the streets - no overdoses - drug users became less criminal because they didn't need as much money to finance their use - the medicalisation of heroin use made it less appealing to new users by removing the rebellious aspect
- WrongAssumption 3y ago
  “ However, lack of control over what went on in the park caused a multitude of problems. Drug dealers and users arrived from all over Europe, and crime became rampant as dealers fought for control and addicts (who numbered up to 1,000 ) stole to support their habit. The once-beautiful gardens had degraded into a mess of mud and used needles, and the emergency services were overwhelmed with the number of overdoses, which were almost nightly. Platzspitz, or Needle Park as it was then known, became a source of embarrassment to the Zurich municipal council and in 1992, police moved in to clear up the park.[clarification needed] The drug scene then moved to the adjacent area of Letten railway station, which closed services in 1989. This spot was also cleared by police in 1995. Today Platzspitz has been cleaned up and restored, and is presented by the authorities as a peaceful, family-friendly garden.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platzspitz_park?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platzspitz_park?wprov=sfti1# So hands off was a total failure, so they gave up and forcibly removed people.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Spinnaker_ 3y ago

Right, but the plan has still failed. If all the key players are on board and you can't even begin to implement the plan, then it was a bad plan, and the people who developed it had little comprehension of reality. We should not attempt this elsewhere.

swalling 3y ago
No, actually we should be trying to fix the stupid mistakes that were made in implementation of the plan, not roll it back and keep on fighting an equally moronic, ineffective, and racist War on Drugs elsewhere. The best available evidence is that decriminalization essentially had no effect on overdose deaths (https://www.opb.org/article/2023/10/03/ballot-measure-110-did-not-lead-to-more-fatal-overdoses-study-finds/ https://www.opb.org/article/2023/10/03/ballot-measure-110-di...). It was going to go up no matter what because of the nature of fentanyl. The only thing the failure of Measure 110 has demonstrably done is waste taxpayer funds and give businesses in downtown an excuse for why they are failing (when in reality it has more to do with the death of downtown for purely economic reasons post-COVID, just like other major West Coast cities).
- uoaei 3y ago
  This is the classic approach of conservatives: throw wrenches in every part of a welfare system, then point to its failures to justify its dissolution. See: Medicare, public education, etc.
  - achierius 3y ago
    The conservatives who run Portland and Oregon?
    - uoaei 3y ago
      You will note of course that the rules and regulations around how to implement these things are always 'bipartisan' and meant to stir up as little backlash as possible. There's many opportunities to install bottlenecks and roadblocks in systems that end up shaping the entire way they function. To some extent it is progressives anticipating conservative backlash but there's plenty of lines in plenty of laws written into and insisted on by conservatives that have wide-ranging consequences. Reductionist perspectives on how politics works always end up at this "one side is dominating the other" kind of narrative but it's never actually that way, both sides still have a lot of influence on the various specifics of the outcome.
      - yanderekko 3y ago
        Are you seriously attributing public sector bureaucratic dysfunction to some sort of subversive public sector conservative operatives, or vague regulatory poison pills that you cannot actually point to here? It seems a lot more intuitive to believe that you cannot just legislate that all government employees act selflessly towards the Greater Good, and the Homeless Industrial complex is a real thing that is not necessarily working in the interests of the public. Observing waste, fraud, and abuse and reflexively saying "this must be the fault of conservatives somehow" is just sorta sad.
        spicymapotofu 3y ago
halestock 3y ago
There are a million reasons a plan like could fail that have nothing to do with with it being a good or bad plan, though. And there are a lot of people invested in making sure a plan like this fails, so that the people who supported it in the first place come to the same conclusion as you.
lazyasciiart 3y ago
“They did everything except what would work! Let’s all give up and go back to things that definitely don’t work. It’s the only option.”
- hatefulmoron 3y ago
  It's always interesting when someone assumes that failed strategy X would have obviously worked if only had it been pursued even harder.. you might be right, but it seems like an odd assumption to make given the circumstance.
  - lazyasciiart 3y ago
    What circumstance? The clamor to use prison time as a solution to homelessness and drug use?
    - hatefulmoron 3y ago
      You know what thread we're in, right? You know what circumstances I'm referring to..
      - hhh 3y ago
        People generally don’t ask you to clarify if they know what you’re talking about.
        hatefulmoron 3y ago
        That's interesting, cheers
        karpatic 3y ago
        Appropriate response.
        qvrjuec 3y ago
alostpuppy 3y ago
So this might be a problem specific to Portland. The government is structured to fail. Hopefully it changes.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

So, how and why are they "sitting on unspent funds"? Are there delays in building plans or legislature slowing stuff down?

bitcharmer 3y ago

Appreciate your comment. Terrifyingly high number of commenters (likely Americans) drawing flawed conclusions. We tried and failed, therefore this problem is unsolvable. Dozens of cities in other parts of the world had much success, so maybe you're doing it wrong? Zurich did a great job, especially with the transformation of the infamous needle park.

jonfw 3y ago
Doing some research on needle park- it looks like the experiments with allowing drug use were a massive failure, absolutely ruining the park, and it was ultimately cleaned up by law enforcement
- bafe 3y ago
  the quote is missing what happened after the Platzpitz and later the older Letten train station were cleared: heroin use was decriminalised - not legalised - but only in controlled locations under supervision from medical staff and social workers. It seems that solution helped in multiple ways: - no people using heroin on the streets - no overdoses - drug users became less criminal because they didn't need as much money to finance their use - the medicalisation of heroin use made it less appealing to new users by removing the rebellious aspect
WrongAssumption 3y ago
“ However, lack of control over what went on in the park caused a multitude of problems. Drug dealers and users arrived from all over Europe, and crime became rampant as dealers fought for control and addicts (who numbered up to 1,000 ) stole to support their habit. The once-beautiful gardens had degraded into a mess of mud and used needles, and the emergency services were overwhelmed with the number of overdoses, which were almost nightly. Platzspitz, or Needle Park as it was then known, became a source of embarrassment to the Zurich municipal council and in 1992, police moved in to clear up the park.[clarification needed] The drug scene then moved to the adjacent area of Letten railway station, which closed services in 1989. This spot was also cleared by police in 1995. Today Platzspitz has been cleaned up and restored, and is presented by the authorities as a peaceful, family-friendly garden.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platzspitz_park?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platzspitz_park?wprov=sfti1# So hands off was a total failure, so they gave up and forcibly removed people.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]