4 ms·

Check Fraud Is Rising and the Thieves Are Winning

15 points by edward 3y ago

stop50 3y ago
I never understood why in 21st century checks are still so popular. in germany i would use cash or direct debit. The later only for remote things.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  They aren't popular. It's a weird thing that only happens in America. It's just like asking, "I never understood why in the 21st century carrying guns around in public is still so popular." Again, it's not, it's only in America; it's not like that in the rest of the civilized world.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
    They aren’t even popular in America. In the last two decades I have written less than 100 of them, I still have the original book that I got when I opened my very first bank account. They remain, as I mentioned in a sibling comment, primarily as a way for landlords to extract more money out of people.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      Well, it's relative: they're far more popular in America than any place else, where they're generally extinct. It's just like carrying guns in public: by far, most Americans don't, but the percentage of the population that does (though a small minority) is still FAR higher than any developed nation.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  In my part of the US, they're not at all popular. They're incredibly rare.
somewhereoutth 3y ago
Apparently the automatic rent payment I arranged for my apartment in SF entailed actual physical checks (cheques) being mailed to the landlord each month. Mind boggling.
kylehotchkiss 3y ago
For the few things you'd need to write a check for... Certified check from the bank or a money order from the grocery store both seem like an easy way out of this. More than anything I wish I had the option to turn OFF check withdrawals from my account as I never write them and worry some stupid company (for example, rent processing one) is going to leak account numbers.
6th 3y ago
I haven't even seen one in like over a decade now! I've never had a chequing account and I'd never accept payments in the form of cheque. Cheques won't be a thing in Australia soon enough either: https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/media-releases/modernising-payments-infrastructure-phasing-out-cheques https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-202... Main thing I remember of cheques: seeing photos of the people who ripped a business off who then put them up on a wall of shame. I saw it quite a bit more in the 90's. I guess back then it might have been handy to have them as a system to keep track of your big bills? Go through your checkbook tabs or something to sum up the months bill expenditure? We've had online banking for quite a while now and that makes it real simple to export a transaction log to csv for accounting.
- meepmorp 3y ago
  Meanwhile, in the US, I was in line behind a 80ish year old lady paying by check at a pharmacy, less than a week ago. I hate the things with a passion.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
    I remember in the mid 2000’s I was a bagger at a grocery store and the cashiers hated them too. They were by far the slowest way to pay for everyone involved. The cashier had to write down the drivers license and do several other precautionary measures due to the fraud associated with them. Eventually a lot of grocery stores just stopped taking them entirely.
    - snypher 3y ago
      Meanwhile we could just zing whatever piece of plastic through the slot and we would be good to go. I still have -see ID- written on some cards :/
      - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
        The day they brought chip to the USA was a good one. In 2024 there will still be gas pumps who don’t support it. More than ones that do it seems. Fortunately it seems like everywhere else does support it. Eventually either gas pumps will become irrelevant or the old ones will be eventually replaced
DesiLurker 3y ago
Bigger question is, why, after so many years of massive development around internet and payments & cryptocurrencies/blockchain etc we still have a 'pull' based payment system instead of a push based one. just because I wanna pay somebody $100 why does that gives them the ability drain my account just because they knew some information about my account. this is a easy problem to solve especially with the new Fednow clearinghouse in picture, but you can be guaranteed banks will drag their feet on any moderization effort that takes revenue away from BS like overdraft fees.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36801491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36801491 https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.... While true FedNow instant payments went live a few months ago, there is an adoption curve and a lot of banks and credit unions have to update their back office and risk systems to support instant payments. It will eventually obsolete checks. You can move up to $100k at a time today (and $500k in the future) for about five cents (bank/financial institution charge, most won’t charge you, some might). If your bank doesn’t support FedNow, call them and tell them you want it.
  - ericbarrett 3y ago
    What's stopping banks from increasing this charge to $10 or $50 or a percentage, on top of the Fed charge? Because if they can, I'm sure they will.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Competition. Any bank can plug into FedNow for $25/month. It is unlikely banks raise rates, Zelle is free for example at every bank that supports it. I’d also expect Congress and the Fed to stamp that shit out quick considering this will eventually replace paper checks and ACH. FedNow is intended to operate on a cost recovery model.
  - photonbeam 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tibbydudeza 3y ago
Cheques was canned by the banks a long time ago here - you guys still using paper - how quaint.

15 points by edward 3y ago

I never understood why in 21st century checks are still so popular. in germany i would use cash or direct debit. The later only for remote things.

shiroiuma 3y ago
They aren't popular. It's a weird thing that only happens in America. It's just like asking, "I never understood why in the 21st century carrying guns around in public is still so popular." Again, it's not, it's only in America; it's not like that in the rest of the civilized world.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  They aren’t even popular in America. In the last two decades I have written less than 100 of them, I still have the original book that I got when I opened my very first bank account. They remain, as I mentioned in a sibling comment, primarily as a way for landlords to extract more money out of people.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    Well, it's relative: they're far more popular in America than any place else, where they're generally extinct. It's just like carrying guns in public: by far, most Americans don't, but the percentage of the population that does (though a small minority) is still FAR higher than any developed nation.
JohnFen 3y ago
In my part of the US, they're not at all popular. They're incredibly rare.

somewhereoutth 3y ago

Apparently the automatic rent payment I arranged for my apartment in SF entailed actual physical checks (cheques) being mailed to the landlord each month. Mind boggling.

kylehotchkiss 3y ago

For the few things you'd need to write a check for... Certified check from the bank or a money order from the grocery store both seem like an easy way out of this. More than anything I wish I had the option to turn OFF check withdrawals from my account as I never write them and worry some stupid company (for example, rent processing one) is going to leak account numbers.

6th 3y ago

I haven't even seen one in like over a decade now! I've never had a chequing account and I'd never accept payments in the form of cheque. Cheques won't be a thing in Australia soon enough either: https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/media-releases/modernising-payments-infrastructure-phasing-out-cheques https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-202... Main thing I remember of cheques: seeing photos of the people who ripped a business off who then put them up on a wall of shame. I saw it quite a bit more in the 90's. I guess back then it might have been handy to have them as a system to keep track of your big bills? Go through your checkbook tabs or something to sum up the months bill expenditure? We've had online banking for quite a while now and that makes it real simple to export a transaction log to csv for accounting.

meepmorp 3y ago
Meanwhile, in the US, I was in line behind a 80ish year old lady paying by check at a pharmacy, less than a week ago. I hate the things with a passion.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  I remember in the mid 2000’s I was a bagger at a grocery store and the cashiers hated them too. They were by far the slowest way to pay for everyone involved. The cashier had to write down the drivers license and do several other precautionary measures due to the fraud associated with them. Eventually a lot of grocery stores just stopped taking them entirely.
  - snypher 3y ago
    Meanwhile we could just zing whatever piece of plastic through the slot and we would be good to go. I still have -see ID- written on some cards :/
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
      The day they brought chip to the USA was a good one. In 2024 there will still be gas pumps who don’t support it. More than ones that do it seems. Fortunately it seems like everywhere else does support it. Eventually either gas pumps will become irrelevant or the old ones will be eventually replaced

DesiLurker 3y ago

Bigger question is, why, after so many years of massive development around internet and payments & cryptocurrencies/blockchain etc we still have a 'pull' based payment system instead of a push based one. just because I wanna pay somebody $100 why does that gives them the ability drain my account just because they knew some information about my account. this is a easy problem to solve especially with the new Fednow clearinghouse in picture, but you can be guaranteed banks will drag their feet on any moderization effort that takes revenue away from BS like overdraft fees.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36801491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36801491 https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.... While true FedNow instant payments went live a few months ago, there is an adoption curve and a lot of banks and credit unions have to update their back office and risk systems to support instant payments. It will eventually obsolete checks. You can move up to $100k at a time today (and $500k in the future) for about five cents (bank/financial institution charge, most won’t charge you, some might). If your bank doesn’t support FedNow, call them and tell them you want it.
- ericbarrett 3y ago
  What's stopping banks from increasing this charge to $10 or $50 or a percentage, on top of the Fed charge? Because if they can, I'm sure they will.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Competition. Any bank can plug into FedNow for $25/month. It is unlikely banks raise rates, Zelle is free for example at every bank that supports it. I’d also expect Congress and the Fed to stamp that shit out quick considering this will eventually replace paper checks and ACH. FedNow is intended to operate on a cost recovery model.
- photonbeam 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tibbydudeza 3y ago

Cheques was canned by the banks a long time ago here - you guys still using paper - how quaint.