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> From everything I've read on the matter, I believe that the UX nightmare when you include a non-apple user is an intentional design choice, rather than an eng

> From everything I've read on the matter, I believe that the UX nightmare when you include a non-apple user is an intentional design choice, rather than an engineering problem that hasn't been solved. I'd be sure this was why, if Google hadn't once tried to get me to use a combo SMS/MMS + some-other-Google-messaging-service app on my phone (by replacing the normal SMS app on OS upgrade—this was on a Nexus phone) that was so broken and janky it was unusable. Like, it is for-sure the case that a rich, huge, "smart" company can fuck this up a lot worse than Apple has. iMessage is easily good enough that I haven't had to go find some alternative SMS app, at least.

Zak 3y ago
I don't remember Hangouts being broken, but Google didn't keep their attempt to onboard people by making it the default SMS client going very long. To me, that seems like a major error on their part, though I think I'm glad Google didn't succeed in popularizing a proprietary unencrypted messaging service.
- nerdix 3y ago
  It would have been encrypted by now (at least for hangout to hangout chats) had it hung around. And at least it was cross platform but overall I agree that mobile messaging should be standardized and open. So while the Google messaging strategy has been an abject failure overall, they did eventually trip over themselves and stumble onto the right path.
  - Zak 3y ago
    Google's implementation of RCS isn't very standardized or open. So far, I believe it's only available with Google's client and Google's servers.
lxgr 3y ago
> iMessage is easily good enough that I haven't had to go find some alternative SMS app (Almost) nobody here is challenging that it is, under the condition that you communicate exclusively with iPhone users. MMS group chats are an absolute dumpster fire from an UX point of view. In some countries, a single MMS costs about half an USD as well (per recipient)!
- wharvle 3y ago
  No, I mean as an sms app. It’s fine for that. Group sms can get kinda rough but I’ve also never had a phone that did it better, including pre-iPhone phones, and a few Android phones. Of course it’s better if you can stay in iMessage, to avoid SMS, same as switching over to WhatsApp or whatever is way better. > MMS group chats are an absolute dumpster fire from an UX point of view. In some countries, a single MMS costs about half an USD as well (per recipient)! Yes, agreed, I’ve never seen it not be awful.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    iOS Messages is a terrible SMS app! It doesn’t support delivery receipts (my old Nokia could do that in 2003!), doesn’t let me send texts to a specific number of a given contact, doesn’t let me pick what number I want to send texts from (for dual SIM), and most frustratingly I can’t send an SMS to any contact it believes to be on iMessage.
    - angott 3y ago
      > most frustratingly I can’t send an SMS to any contact it believes to be on iMessage You can long press on a sent iMessage blue bubble to reveal a 'Send as Text Message' menu item. It's quite hidden but it's there.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        Only if the message didn’t go out to Apple’s servers. That doesn’t help me when I know the recipient won’t be able to receive it (e.g. because they are on roaming or out of mobile data).
        speg 3y ago
        If you know you want to send an SMS you can tap it right after you press send, there’s a small grace period. I just did it.
    - js2 3y ago

Zak 3y ago

I don't remember Hangouts being broken, but Google didn't keep their attempt to onboard people by making it the default SMS client going very long. To me, that seems like a major error on their part, though I think I'm glad Google didn't succeed in popularizing a proprietary unencrypted messaging service.

nerdix 3y ago
It would have been encrypted by now (at least for hangout to hangout chats) had it hung around. And at least it was cross platform but overall I agree that mobile messaging should be standardized and open. So while the Google messaging strategy has been an abject failure overall, they did eventually trip over themselves and stumble onto the right path.
- Zak 3y ago
  Google's implementation of RCS isn't very standardized or open. So far, I believe it's only available with Google's client and Google's servers.

lxgr 3y ago

> iMessage is easily good enough that I haven't had to go find some alternative SMS app (Almost) nobody here is challenging that it is, under the condition that you communicate exclusively with iPhone users. MMS group chats are an absolute dumpster fire from an UX point of view. In some countries, a single MMS costs about half an USD as well (per recipient)!

wharvle 3y ago
No, I mean as an sms app. It’s fine for that. Group sms can get kinda rough but I’ve also never had a phone that did it better, including pre-iPhone phones, and a few Android phones. Of course it’s better if you can stay in iMessage, to avoid SMS, same as switching over to WhatsApp or whatever is way better. > MMS group chats are an absolute dumpster fire from an UX point of view. In some countries, a single MMS costs about half an USD as well (per recipient)! Yes, agreed, I’ve never seen it not be awful.
- lxgr 3y ago
  iOS Messages is a terrible SMS app! It doesn’t support delivery receipts (my old Nokia could do that in 2003!), doesn’t let me send texts to a specific number of a given contact, doesn’t let me pick what number I want to send texts from (for dual SIM), and most frustratingly I can’t send an SMS to any contact it believes to be on iMessage.
  - angott 3y ago
    > most frustratingly I can’t send an SMS to any contact it believes to be on iMessage You can long press on a sent iMessage blue bubble to reveal a 'Send as Text Message' menu item. It's quite hidden but it's there.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      Only if the message didn’t go out to Apple’s servers. That doesn’t help me when I know the recipient won’t be able to receive it (e.g. because they are on roaming or out of mobile data).
      - speg 3y ago
        If you know you want to send an SMS you can tap it right after you press send, there’s a small grace period. I just did it.
  - js2 3y ago