4 ms·

Coming from Europe, this is so weird and confusing We have normal security + fast track that business/flex ticket holders and passengers with airline status ca

by eisa01 3y ago

Coming from Europe, this is so weird and confusing We have normal security + fast track that business/flex ticket holders and passengers with airline status can use. Some European low-cost airlines also let you use it for a nominal extra fee In the US you have this TSA precheck that you need to have an appointment to set up? But at EWR I also saw a private initiative called "CLEAR"? But I was pleasantly surprised to see there was fast track for United "PremierAccess"/*G status holder – never seen that before in the US!

sveiss 3y ago
PreCheck reduces the intensity of the actual screening: walk-through metal detector instead of millimeter wave scanners, can leave your shoes on, keep liquids/laptops/etc in bags, and at airports with a mix of 2D X-ray and 3D CT scanners for baggage, the PreCheck lanes are more likely to have the older X-ray scanners. The reduced scrutiny is the justification for the fingerprinting appointment background check. I haven't seen anything similar in Europe, but busy airports are far more likely to have an efficient security setup that can already cope with leaving liquids in bags and the like. Many US airports still have security checkpoints that look like temporary installations, with portable equipment--even when they're brand new redevelopments! Usually, the queues are shorter for the PreCheck lanes, but this isn't guaranteed. CLEAR replaces having an an agent compare your face to your ID with having a kiosk compare your biometrics. The real advantage comes from having a CLEAR employee then walk you past the queue to get by the normal ID checking podium. You need both to get the guaranteed short queue and the less intense screening. (And then there are the programs to expedite the immigration/customs process too, but at least those include PreCheck, so you don't need all three...)
- NegativeK 3y ago
  It sounds like CLEAR is doing what Precheck promised to do? I refuse to get it because me paying money for them to do a background check and make their process more efficient is completely backwards. What's going to happen when CLEAR becomes saturated and slows down -- a fourth tier of passenger?
  - chrisbolt 3y ago
    If you don't also have Precheck, CLEAR does not give you Precheck benefits, it just lets you skip to the front of the normal screening line.
  - sveiss 3y ago
    CLEAR is more than ten times as expensive as PreCheck: $189/year vs $15.60/year. That's likely enough to keep the queues low. PreCheck (or rather Global Entry at $20/year, which includes PreCheck plus immigration/customs priority) is worth the cost for me. I'm an immigrant, so the US has already done several checks into my background and has many, many copies of my biometrics already, so there's no additional privacy loss. I could afford CLEAR, but the value just isn't there for me.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    CLEAR is the substitute for the ID verification process. Pre is the substitute for the security screening process. Or "modified" screening process, rather.
  - vineyardmike 3y ago
    CLEAR is different than Pre-Check. CLEAR is a pay-to-skip-line service. You still need to be screened by security in the normal way. There is Pre-Check CLEAR and normal CLEAR, and you go to the one that matches your security level. > What's going to happen when CLEAR becomes saturated and slows down I have CLEAR. When I was in Seattle I saw a family of 5 trying to go through clear because the father was a member, and members get guest passes they can use to sign people up for a trial. It was an absolute mess, but the agents saw me and escorted me past the family. Because of how CLEAR is set up, you can usually handle 5+ people at once, and it's expensive enough it probably won't be saturated by everyone. > a fourth tier of passenger I fly a lot, and I think we've just about gotten enough Tiers haha. You have the "normal" pool for occasional people flying to see family or go on vacation. It's slow, the TSA agents have to explain to people how to queue correctly, and the line ends up out the door during busy times. In some airports, you can now reserve your place in line remotely. If you fly 1/yr, its probably fine though. You have PreCheck, which I recommend to anyone who flies more than 1/yr. It can sometimes get a line during busy times, but it moves - it's probably exclusively people who "know how airports work" so it's orderly. It's also a simpler security protocol, so it's actually less time per person. Then you have private lines that some airlines set up. TBH I've never used them, but my understanding is that you go through existing TSA, they're just private queues. IDK why you'd do this instead of just paying for PreCheck or CLEAR. I think it's often sold for ~$20 each use (or free with 1st class, etc). You have CLEAR which is literally just paying to cut the line for PreCheck or Normal TSA. This would compete with the private airport lines. This is $200/yr so you really need to fly often to justify the cost. I have it and use it where available, but I don't miss if its its not there. I would go out of my way to find a pre-check line, but not CLEAR. Lastly, if you're really fancy there are private security entrances at some airports, with private lounges and security checkpoints. These run in the $5k range, so they're really not for most people. The LAX one will drive you across the tarmac to your plane in a luxury car I'm told. I assume there's no line here ever. So America already has 5 different tiers of passengers just for going through security depending on your wealth (and risk profile). I can only assume we've rung all the money out we can, and we don't need another yet.
- zaat 3y ago
  > busy airports are far more likely to have an efficient security setup that can already cope with leaving liquids in bags and the like. Rome FCO, winner of best airport of 2022, 10th busiest airport in Europe. Boarding a flight last month, I had a sealed San Pellegrino bottle, passed it through screening, I had no idea that wasn't allowed. They confiscated it. I requested to drink from the bottle before it is thrown, they said that was an option before it was screened and now it must go to the garbage.
ngngngng 3y ago
I prefer American screening. I was recently in Frankfurt and was very pleased to find they had a line for families with children, but then every single screen was equivalent to the screen you receive when you leave a water bottle in your luggage in the USA. Everyone was required to have a full on 2 minute conversation with the security agent, and children were screaming as they received intensive pat downs. If you're going to have security theater, at least try and make it fast.
- grepfru_it 3y ago
  Ha, when I flew out of of Frankfurt to Italy, I just had to walk through a metal detector like it was 1998. So did every other person at that security terminal. Made me wonder why flying in America was not like that great experience
- alexanderchr 3y ago
  This is not standard procedure in Europe. I’ve never seen anything like it. Must have been something special going on that day.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    Agree. I have been through Frankfurt a few times, and never experienced anything like this. Let alone the rest of Europe.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  I grew up in Australia, and mostly pre-911. Took my girlfriend and her daughter there from the US recently. Worst part of screening was emigration/passport checking, outbound, at Sydney. They've never traveled abroad, so I'm bringing them with me. There's a bunch of open gates. Agent says "Use the three gates" to us, "so it can be quicker". We do. Her daughter's passport is being problematic. Agents are being unhelpful. They're more interested in berating us. The same one who spread us across three gates speaks witheringly and condescendingly to us, "This is why you need to go parent - child - parent." Took every ounce of restraint to not say "Then why did you tell us to do something different a minute and a half ago?" Said kid is an intelligent 16 year old. There was actually an issue with the equipment, not her.
deathanatos 3y ago
> In the US you have this TSA precheck that you need to have an appointment to set up? I think it's just a one-time appointment to get enrolled in precheck. While flying, you just select a different (in theory speedier) line. "CLEAR" is weirder. They're a private company, for one; AIUI, they get you through the lines quicker, and they do the document check portion¹ of the TSA flow, but not the security screening; vs. the TSA Precheck will result in a lighter security screen portion. (They're expensive, so I've never considered them.) ¹the typical TSA flow is: 1) huge line, 2) "document check" where your boarding pass & ID are inspected, 3) small line, 4) baggage xray + (body scanner || pat down)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by eisa01 3y ago

sveiss 3y ago

PreCheck reduces the intensity of the actual screening: walk-through metal detector instead of millimeter wave scanners, can leave your shoes on, keep liquids/laptops/etc in bags, and at airports with a mix of 2D X-ray and 3D CT scanners for baggage, the PreCheck lanes are more likely to have the older X-ray scanners. The reduced scrutiny is the justification for the fingerprinting appointment background check. I haven't seen anything similar in Europe, but busy airports are far more likely to have an efficient security setup that can already cope with leaving liquids in bags and the like. Many US airports still have security checkpoints that look like temporary installations, with portable equipment--even when they're brand new redevelopments! Usually, the queues are shorter for the PreCheck lanes, but this isn't guaranteed. CLEAR replaces having an an agent compare your face to your ID with having a kiosk compare your biometrics. The real advantage comes from having a CLEAR employee then walk you past the queue to get by the normal ID checking podium. You need both to get the guaranteed short queue and the less intense screening. (And then there are the programs to expedite the immigration/customs process too, but at least those include PreCheck, so you don't need all three...)

NegativeK 3y ago
It sounds like CLEAR is doing what Precheck promised to do? I refuse to get it because me paying money for them to do a background check and make their process more efficient is completely backwards. What's going to happen when CLEAR becomes saturated and slows down -- a fourth tier of passenger?
- chrisbolt 3y ago
  If you don't also have Precheck, CLEAR does not give you Precheck benefits, it just lets you skip to the front of the normal screening line.
- sveiss 3y ago
  CLEAR is more than ten times as expensive as PreCheck: $189/year vs $15.60/year. That's likely enough to keep the queues low. PreCheck (or rather Global Entry at $20/year, which includes PreCheck plus immigration/customs priority) is worth the cost for me. I'm an immigrant, so the US has already done several checks into my background and has many, many copies of my biometrics already, so there's no additional privacy loss. I could afford CLEAR, but the value just isn't there for me.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  CLEAR is the substitute for the ID verification process. Pre is the substitute for the security screening process. Or "modified" screening process, rather.
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  CLEAR is different than Pre-Check. CLEAR is a pay-to-skip-line service. You still need to be screened by security in the normal way. There is Pre-Check CLEAR and normal CLEAR, and you go to the one that matches your security level. > What's going to happen when CLEAR becomes saturated and slows down I have CLEAR. When I was in Seattle I saw a family of 5 trying to go through clear because the father was a member, and members get guest passes they can use to sign people up for a trial. It was an absolute mess, but the agents saw me and escorted me past the family. Because of how CLEAR is set up, you can usually handle 5+ people at once, and it's expensive enough it probably won't be saturated by everyone. > a fourth tier of passenger I fly a lot, and I think we've just about gotten enough Tiers haha. You have the "normal" pool for occasional people flying to see family or go on vacation. It's slow, the TSA agents have to explain to people how to queue correctly, and the line ends up out the door during busy times. In some airports, you can now reserve your place in line remotely. If you fly 1/yr, its probably fine though. You have PreCheck, which I recommend to anyone who flies more than 1/yr. It can sometimes get a line during busy times, but it moves - it's probably exclusively people who "know how airports work" so it's orderly. It's also a simpler security protocol, so it's actually less time per person. Then you have private lines that some airlines set up. TBH I've never used them, but my understanding is that you go through existing TSA, they're just private queues. IDK why you'd do this instead of just paying for PreCheck or CLEAR. I think it's often sold for ~$20 each use (or free with 1st class, etc). You have CLEAR which is literally just paying to cut the line for PreCheck or Normal TSA. This would compete with the private airport lines. This is $200/yr so you really need to fly often to justify the cost. I have it and use it where available, but I don't miss if its its not there. I would go out of my way to find a pre-check line, but not CLEAR. Lastly, if you're really fancy there are private security entrances at some airports, with private lounges and security checkpoints. These run in the $5k range, so they're really not for most people. The LAX one will drive you across the tarmac to your plane in a luxury car I'm told. I assume there's no line here ever. So America already has 5 different tiers of passengers just for going through security depending on your wealth (and risk profile). I can only assume we've rung all the money out we can, and we don't need another yet.
zaat 3y ago
> busy airports are far more likely to have an efficient security setup that can already cope with leaving liquids in bags and the like. Rome FCO, winner of best airport of 2022, 10th busiest airport in Europe. Boarding a flight last month, I had a sealed San Pellegrino bottle, passed it through screening, I had no idea that wasn't allowed. They confiscated it. I requested to drink from the bottle before it is thrown, they said that was an option before it was screened and now it must go to the garbage.

ngngngng 3y ago

I prefer American screening. I was recently in Frankfurt and was very pleased to find they had a line for families with children, but then every single screen was equivalent to the screen you receive when you leave a water bottle in your luggage in the USA. Everyone was required to have a full on 2 minute conversation with the security agent, and children were screaming as they received intensive pat downs. If you're going to have security theater, at least try and make it fast.

grepfru_it 3y ago
Ha, when I flew out of of Frankfurt to Italy, I just had to walk through a metal detector like it was 1998. So did every other person at that security terminal. Made me wonder why flying in America was not like that great experience
alexanderchr 3y ago
This is not standard procedure in Europe. I’ve never seen anything like it. Must have been something special going on that day.
- RajT88 3y ago
  Agree. I have been through Frankfurt a few times, and never experienced anything like this. Let alone the rest of Europe.
FireBeyond 3y ago
I grew up in Australia, and mostly pre-911. Took my girlfriend and her daughter there from the US recently. Worst part of screening was emigration/passport checking, outbound, at Sydney. They've never traveled abroad, so I'm bringing them with me. There's a bunch of open gates. Agent says "Use the three gates" to us, "so it can be quicker". We do. Her daughter's passport is being problematic. Agents are being unhelpful. They're more interested in berating us. The same one who spread us across three gates speaks witheringly and condescendingly to us, "This is why you need to go parent - child - parent." Took every ounce of restraint to not say "Then why did you tell us to do something different a minute and a half ago?" Said kid is an intelligent 16 year old. There was actually an issue with the equipment, not her.

deathanatos 3y ago

> In the US you have this TSA precheck that you need to have an appointment to set up? I think it's just a one-time appointment to get enrolled in precheck. While flying, you just select a different (in theory speedier) line. "CLEAR" is weirder. They're a private company, for one; AIUI, they get you through the lines quicker, and they do the document check portion¹ of the TSA flow, but not the security screening; vs. the TSA Precheck will result in a lighter security screen portion. (They're expensive, so I've never considered them.) ¹the typical TSA flow is: 1) huge line, 2) "document check" where your boarding pass & ID are inspected, 3) small line, 4) baggage xray + (body scanner || pat down)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]