4 ms·

Some language -> WASM -> C -> Cosmopolitan C Compiler -> Actually Portable Executable that runs on just about anything...?

CalChris 3y ago
Why not just Some Language -> C -> CCC -> executable? What is WASM bringing to the table? Or better yet Some Language -> MLIR.
- turbolent 3y ago
  Very few languages have "Some Language -> C" or "Some Language -> non-common OS / arch combo". The "just" part is a whole new backend, which is a massive amount of work for common languages. But it turns out many languages do have "Some Language -> WASM" now. WebAssembly brings portability to the table.
turbolent 3y ago
Exactly!
kllrnohj 3y ago
No more than "Some language -> its native toolchain" already is or isn't.
- VikingCoder 3y ago
  Did you read up on Cosmopolitan C Compiler when it was discussed here? No, it's not exactly the same amount of portability as some language and its native toolchain. If you give me source code in some language that I can transpile to C or C++, or into WASM (and then into C), then I can give you a single file which can be executed on Linux, BSD, Mac, or Windows. That's not remotely the same thing as "its native toolchain." You, a developer or tech savvy person, might not see any difference. But if I hand a non-tech-savvy person a file and they can just run it, no matter what OS they're using - with no pre-requisites - that's kind of magic.
  - kllrnohj 3y ago
    > then I can give you a single file which can be executed on Linux, BSD, Mac, or Windows. Using what libraries & syscalls? A portable IR and a portable executable are very different things, yet the WASM crowd loves to conflate them. WASM is only a portable IR, it doesn't get you portable programs at least not if you want your program to do anything beyond a trivial hello world.
    - VikingCoder 3y ago
      For WASM, that's what WASI is all about, yes? And for Cosmopolitan Libc, there's documented Functions: https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/functions.html https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/functions.html And if you want to see things beyond a trivial hello world, you can check out some examples: https://github.com/shmup/awesome-cosmopolitan https://github.com/shmup/awesome-cosmopolitan https://github.com/burggraf/awesome-cosmo https://github.com/burggraf/awesome-cosmo Or you can see a pretty big list of pre-compiled Actually Portable Executables here: https://cosmo.zip/pub/cosmos/bin/ https://cosmo.zip/pub/cosmos/bin/

CalChris 3y ago

Why not just Some Language -> C -> CCC -> executable? What is WASM bringing to the table? Or better yet Some Language -> MLIR.

turbolent 3y ago
Very few languages have "Some Language -> C" or "Some Language -> non-common OS / arch combo". The "just" part is a whole new backend, which is a massive amount of work for common languages. But it turns out many languages do have "Some Language -> WASM" now. WebAssembly brings portability to the table.

turbolent 3y ago

Exactly!

kllrnohj 3y ago

No more than "Some language -> its native toolchain" already is or isn't.

VikingCoder 3y ago
Did you read up on Cosmopolitan C Compiler when it was discussed here? No, it's not exactly the same amount of portability as some language and its native toolchain. If you give me source code in some language that I can transpile to C or C++, or into WASM (and then into C), then I can give you a single file which can be executed on Linux, BSD, Mac, or Windows. That's not remotely the same thing as "its native toolchain." You, a developer or tech savvy person, might not see any difference. But if I hand a non-tech-savvy person a file and they can just run it, no matter what OS they're using - with no pre-requisites - that's kind of magic.
- kllrnohj 3y ago
  > then I can give you a single file which can be executed on Linux, BSD, Mac, or Windows. Using what libraries & syscalls? A portable IR and a portable executable are very different things, yet the WASM crowd loves to conflate them. WASM is only a portable IR, it doesn't get you portable programs at least not if you want your program to do anything beyond a trivial hello world.
  - VikingCoder 3y ago
    For WASM, that's what WASI is all about, yes? And for Cosmopolitan Libc, there's documented Functions: https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/functions.html https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/functions.html And if you want to see things beyond a trivial hello world, you can check out some examples: https://github.com/shmup/awesome-cosmopolitan https://github.com/shmup/awesome-cosmopolitan https://github.com/burggraf/awesome-cosmo https://github.com/burggraf/awesome-cosmo Or you can see a pretty big list of pre-compiled Actually Portable Executables here: https://cosmo.zip/pub/cosmos/bin/ https://cosmo.zip/pub/cosmos/bin/