4 ms·

This indicates that the jury/judge also failed the innocent man. What would have saved him? Are these cases relics before dna? Would it happen again today?

by graphe 3y ago

pc86 3y ago
I think it depends on your definition of "failed." An eye witness said it was him. He likely didn't have an alibi that could have withstood an eye witness pointing at him and saying "he did this." Had he been at a convenience store on camera, or some other incontrovertible thing, it would have most likely turned out differently. I'm not sure how a reasonable judge or jury would have come to any other conclusion given what little we know about this third-person retelling of a case so I don't think they "failed" him at least in the way I typically think of that word being used in these contexts.
michaelt 3y ago
For better or worse, a huge amount of our justice system depends on eyewitness statements. For example, if my crazy neighbour knocked on my door, pushed their way into my home when I answered then beat me up - the only evidence of who did it would be my eyewitness testimony. There would be incontrovertible evidence that someone had assaulted me, in the form of my bruise-covered face and body. But only eyewitness testimony as to who. With the current justice system, that would almost certainly be enough for a jury to convict. There are tragic miscarriages of justice from time to time, and certainly DNA evidence should be used whenever possible. But would I prefer to live in a world which rejects eyewitness testimony, where a crazy person can barge into my house and beat me up with no consequences? Or a world where I have to have CCTV in my own home? Not really to be honest.
- graphe 3y ago
  The manpower involved could also be an issue, they can gather dna and evidence but more likely it’ll be ignored over other cases. For better or worst, we should accept that our justice system has holes and flaws, and we should do our best to avoid them. There isn’t much to help you and they might not have any suitable punishment or aid to give to the crazy person.
- hobotime 3y ago
  That wouldn't me just your verbal evidence there, as your other neighbors would be able to collaborate that you neighbor was crazy. There would be bruises on his knuckles. His clothing would have your blood on them. In cases of rape, where there's usually ample forensic evidence, there need not be a complete reliance on someone's testimony.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    There were the semen samples taken, but this was before DNA matching.
jandrese 3y ago
This sort of thing happens all the time. The Innocence Project has a multi-year backlog. If you are a black man with a public defender the prosecution almost doesn't even have to show up to get a conviction. Death row is full of people who were railroaded by the system.
- graphe 3y ago
  Full of is misleading. If 1%-10% are innocent, 99-90% are still guilty. 21 of the 375 men that were innocent were on death row. https://innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/ https://innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-... Are these cases a relic before dna evidence?
  - jandrese 3y ago
    That's just for this one project. I'm not saying everyone is innocent, but the number of people who were wrongly convicted by a lazy system that let shoddy police work and lax standards become the norm is shocking. There's the old thought process that even if the guy wasn't guilty of this crime he's certainly guilty of others so they would be doing the world a favor by putting him away. In the end this is just self-justified racism.
    - graphe 3y ago
      >There's the old thought process that even if the guy wasn't guilty of this crime he's certainly guilty of others so they would be doing the world a favor by putting him away. In the end this is just self-justified racism. I’m sorry, where is race the factor in this? You could make a weak claim for sexism from your post but there is no racism.
      - jandrese 3y ago
        I'll give you one guess as to the skin color of the people who "seem dangerous" to these all white judges, prosecutors, and juries.
WalterBright 3y ago
Everyone acted in good faith - the lawyers, the judge, the jury, the victim. The problem is a system that believes eyewitness testimony is slam dunk evidence.
- graphe 3y ago
  From your other comment it seems like this is a relic before dna testing. I’ve heard there are many samples of dna that have yet to be processed. Hopefully the circumstances don’t occur again.

This indicates that the jury/judge also failed the innocent man. What would have saved him? Are these cases relics before dna? Would it happen again today?

by graphe 3y ago

This indicates that the jury/judge also failed the innocent man. What would have saved him? Are these cases relics before dna? Would it happen again today?

pc86 3y ago

I think it depends on your definition of "failed." An eye witness said it was him. He likely didn't have an alibi that could have withstood an eye witness pointing at him and saying "he did this." Had he been at a convenience store on camera, or some other incontrovertible thing, it would have most likely turned out differently. I'm not sure how a reasonable judge or jury would have come to any other conclusion given what little we know about this third-person retelling of a case so I don't think they "failed" him at least in the way I typically think of that word being used in these contexts.

michaelt 3y ago

For better or worse, a huge amount of our justice system depends on eyewitness statements. For example, if my crazy neighbour knocked on my door, pushed their way into my home when I answered then beat me up - the only evidence of who did it would be my eyewitness testimony. There would be incontrovertible evidence that someone had assaulted me, in the form of my bruise-covered face and body. But only eyewitness testimony as to who. With the current justice system, that would almost certainly be enough for a jury to convict. There are tragic miscarriages of justice from time to time, and certainly DNA evidence should be used whenever possible. But would I prefer to live in a world which rejects eyewitness testimony, where a crazy person can barge into my house and beat me up with no consequences? Or a world where I have to have CCTV in my own home? Not really to be honest.

graphe 3y ago
The manpower involved could also be an issue, they can gather dna and evidence but more likely it’ll be ignored over other cases. For better or worst, we should accept that our justice system has holes and flaws, and we should do our best to avoid them. There isn’t much to help you and they might not have any suitable punishment or aid to give to the crazy person.
hobotime 3y ago
That wouldn't me just your verbal evidence there, as your other neighbors would be able to collaborate that you neighbor was crazy. There would be bruises on his knuckles. His clothing would have your blood on them. In cases of rape, where there's usually ample forensic evidence, there need not be a complete reliance on someone's testimony.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  There were the semen samples taken, but this was before DNA matching.

jandrese 3y ago

This sort of thing happens all the time. The Innocence Project has a multi-year backlog. If you are a black man with a public defender the prosecution almost doesn't even have to show up to get a conviction. Death row is full of people who were railroaded by the system.

graphe 3y ago
Full of is misleading. If 1%-10% are innocent, 99-90% are still guilty. 21 of the 375 men that were innocent were on death row. https://innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/ https://innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-... Are these cases a relic before dna evidence?
- jandrese 3y ago
  That's just for this one project. I'm not saying everyone is innocent, but the number of people who were wrongly convicted by a lazy system that let shoddy police work and lax standards become the norm is shocking. There's the old thought process that even if the guy wasn't guilty of this crime he's certainly guilty of others so they would be doing the world a favor by putting him away. In the end this is just self-justified racism.
  - graphe 3y ago
    >There's the old thought process that even if the guy wasn't guilty of this crime he's certainly guilty of others so they would be doing the world a favor by putting him away. In the end this is just self-justified racism. I’m sorry, where is race the factor in this? You could make a weak claim for sexism from your post but there is no racism.
    - jandrese 3y ago
      I'll give you one guess as to the skin color of the people who "seem dangerous" to these all white judges, prosecutors, and juries.

WalterBright 3y ago

Everyone acted in good faith - the lawyers, the judge, the jury, the victim. The problem is a system that believes eyewitness testimony is slam dunk evidence.

graphe 3y ago
From your other comment it seems like this is a relic before dna testing. I’ve heard there are many samples of dna that have yet to be processed. Hopefully the circumstances don’t occur again.