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By what metric? Arguably, users are less secure since "fixing" Messages (i.e. breaking Beeper) means Apple and Android users lose a secure communication channel

by radlad 3y ago

By what metric? Arguably, users are less secure since "fixing" Messages (i.e. breaking Beeper) means Apple and Android users lose a secure communication channel. Beeper isn't "hacking" Messages... they've implemented the protocol.

chewmieser 3y ago
I don't think the parent is that concerned with Android <-> Apple communications with that statement. Reverse-engineering a closed protocol and distributing an Apple Binary (IIRC correctly) are a bit more than just "implementing a protocol."
- radlad 3y ago
  > Reverse-engineering a closed protocol and distributing an Apple Binary (IIRC correctly) are a bit more than just "implementing a protocol." Reverse-engineering the protocol was the first step to implementing it. The point is that there was no vulnerability exploited in the protocol - it's as secure as it ever was. I don't think they are shipping an Apple binary. Can you provide a source for that?
CharlesW 3y ago
> Arguably, users are less secure since "fixing" Messages (i.e. breaking Beeper) means Apple and Android users lose a secure communication channel. If you hack a secure communications channel so that unauthorized client software/hardware can pretend to be authorized software/hardware, how does that make the channel more secure?
- mab122 3y ago
  > If you hack a secure communications channel so that unauthorized client software/hardware can pretend to be authorized software/hardware, how does that make the channel more secure? How does it make more insecure? It doesnt, security should be accomplished by the protocol, messages themselves not by blockong access to a communication channel. Otherwise its just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity
fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
To lose something you'd have to have had it to begin with. Users aren't gaining an additional secure messaging channel would be a more accurate description. I personally won't waste my time trying to be an early adopter of this. I suspect the upcoming RCS support will be the only "apple native" way to have non-shit tier messaging between android and iOS, and Apple will keep breaking Beeper if they can.
- radlad 3y ago
  I was using Beeper Mini a few days ago, so not sure what you mean by "had to have it to begin with." I did! My partner and I were finally able to move off Messenger... for a day.

by radlad 3y ago

chewmieser 3y ago

I don't think the parent is that concerned with Android <-> Apple communications with that statement. Reverse-engineering a closed protocol and distributing an Apple Binary (IIRC correctly) are a bit more than just "implementing a protocol."

radlad 3y ago
> Reverse-engineering a closed protocol and distributing an Apple Binary (IIRC correctly) are a bit more than just "implementing a protocol." Reverse-engineering the protocol was the first step to implementing it. The point is that there was no vulnerability exploited in the protocol - it's as secure as it ever was. I don't think they are shipping an Apple binary. Can you provide a source for that?

CharlesW 3y ago

> Arguably, users are less secure since "fixing" Messages (i.e. breaking Beeper) means Apple and Android users lose a secure communication channel. If you hack a secure communications channel so that unauthorized client software/hardware can pretend to be authorized software/hardware, how does that make the channel more secure?

mab122 3y ago
> If you hack a secure communications channel so that unauthorized client software/hardware can pretend to be authorized software/hardware, how does that make the channel more secure? How does it make more insecure? It doesnt, security should be accomplished by the protocol, messages themselves not by blockong access to a communication channel. Otherwise its just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago

To lose something you'd have to have had it to begin with. Users aren't gaining an additional secure messaging channel would be a more accurate description. I personally won't waste my time trying to be an early adopter of this. I suspect the upcoming RCS support will be the only "apple native" way to have non-shit tier messaging between android and iOS, and Apple will keep breaking Beeper if they can.

radlad 3y ago
I was using Beeper Mini a few days ago, so not sure what you mean by "had to have it to begin with." I did! My partner and I were finally able to move off Messenger... for a day.