5 ms·

We can finally end warrantless surveillance in the US

51 points by olestr 3y ago

a_gnostic 3y ago
Here's a faster fix: Simply repeal the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act.
derelicta 3y ago
Would be great if you guys also extended this to all non-US citizens.
- hulitu 3y ago
  This what ?
- halJordan 3y ago
  Obama did extend quite a lot of 4th Amendment protections to non-US citizens. I kinda wish you guys wouldn't forget so quickly (deliberately?). It was a big deal when it happened. Maybe check your bubble.
wutwutwat 3y ago
Making it illegal won’t change anything, they are already illegally gathering info on us. My comment history has plenty of references, I’m honestly exhausted how often I have to share that info
- halJordan 3y ago
  I scrolled to the first comment with links. You seem to suffer from what a lot of the other commenters believe. That the world stopped with Snowden. And that mistakes are not allowed to happen. And that for some reason you can trust the NSA's own reporting on their FISA violations but literally nothing else. That they are pure liars, except for their data that i can squint at to support me. You have a doublethink. The only one that can be dealt with in comments is that Snowden was a decade ago. Just catch up.
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    Big different between a single mistake and a mistake made over 50 thousand times in less than a year, by people being told to police themselves by an oversight court who is too busy to do what we pay them for. Snowden exposed many things the most important imo is that we’re being spied on and have been and it doesn’t matter if it’s a “mistake” or not (which is bs), it’s still fucking happening and to think it still isn’t happening is being willfully ignorant. There’s a room in att that mirrors all their traffic for the government for gods sake that’s a thing that exists is that a mistake?
- hcfman 3y ago
  Exactly, laws are meaningly. Laws are just there to pretend that they are compliant. There's no accountability for the laws.
LanzVonL 3y ago
We can't, the technical capability ensures it will be used. The ONLY option is to ditch most Internet use, go back to pre-backdoored hardware, do everything over Tor or i2p, and basically force the surveillance state to manually stake people out with actual field agents, which is so expensive that it's basically impossible to do at any scale. As long as people insist on carrying a gov-corp tracker pod with them everywhere they go, and plug in listening devices throughout their homes, the nightmare will continue.
- mortallywounded 3y ago
  Uncle Ted?
- reaperman 3y ago
  I believe USA has the ability to control enough Tor entry and exit nodes to de-obfuscate most Tor traffic, but chooses to primarily reserve using this capability for "actual" national-security level threats. Feasibility: https://www.securityweek.com/malicious-actor-controlled-23-tor-exit-nodes/ https://www.securityweek.com/malicious-actor-controlled-23-t...
  - mmh0000 3y ago
    I believe that only matters if you're going public-internet -> Tor -> public-internet. If you stay within the Tor network, as far as I understand, it is still secure regardless of how many nodes the other side controls.
ETH_start 3y ago
One form of warrantless surveillance persists and expands: warrantless financial surveillance, euphemized as KYC/AML/CTF laws.
- baybal2 3y ago
  [dead]
hulitu 3y ago
> We can finally end warrantless surveillance in the US > Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) allows the US government to spy on foreigners while also sweeping up “incidental” communications of its own citizens. Haha, this guy is joking. The US spies on its own citizens with or without the Section 702. He references the Snowden revelations so he should know that.
- halJordan 3y ago
  This nonsensical "I know they're spying" bro science needs pushback. There are very real reasons to increase oversight but no, "Trust me, Snowden," is not one of them. The joke is that everything snowden revealed was either already legal, or shutdown, or made legal if there was a doubt. It's only hurtful for you to regress the conversation, it's not cool cynicism.
  - iAMkenough 3y ago
    > The joke is that everything snowden revealed was either already legal, or shutdown, or made legal if there was a doubt. The real joke is that even if you believe some of it should have been illegal, the revelations did little to inspire stronger 4th Amendment protections for a person's digital effects.

51 points by olestr 3y ago

a_gnostic 3y ago

Here's a faster fix: Simply repeal the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act.

derelicta 3y ago

Would be great if you guys also extended this to all non-US citizens.

hulitu 3y ago
This what ?
halJordan 3y ago
Obama did extend quite a lot of 4th Amendment protections to non-US citizens. I kinda wish you guys wouldn't forget so quickly (deliberately?). It was a big deal when it happened. Maybe check your bubble.

wutwutwat 3y ago

Making it illegal won’t change anything, they are already illegally gathering info on us. My comment history has plenty of references, I’m honestly exhausted how often I have to share that info

halJordan 3y ago
I scrolled to the first comment with links. You seem to suffer from what a lot of the other commenters believe. That the world stopped with Snowden. And that mistakes are not allowed to happen. And that for some reason you can trust the NSA's own reporting on their FISA violations but literally nothing else. That they are pure liars, except for their data that i can squint at to support me. You have a doublethink. The only one that can be dealt with in comments is that Snowden was a decade ago. Just catch up.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  Big different between a single mistake and a mistake made over 50 thousand times in less than a year, by people being told to police themselves by an oversight court who is too busy to do what we pay them for. Snowden exposed many things the most important imo is that we’re being spied on and have been and it doesn’t matter if it’s a “mistake” or not (which is bs), it’s still fucking happening and to think it still isn’t happening is being willfully ignorant. There’s a room in att that mirrors all their traffic for the government for gods sake that’s a thing that exists is that a mistake?
hcfman 3y ago
Exactly, laws are meaningly. Laws are just there to pretend that they are compliant. There's no accountability for the laws.

LanzVonL 3y ago

We can't, the technical capability ensures it will be used. The ONLY option is to ditch most Internet use, go back to pre-backdoored hardware, do everything over Tor or i2p, and basically force the surveillance state to manually stake people out with actual field agents, which is so expensive that it's basically impossible to do at any scale. As long as people insist on carrying a gov-corp tracker pod with them everywhere they go, and plug in listening devices throughout their homes, the nightmare will continue.

mortallywounded 3y ago
Uncle Ted?
reaperman 3y ago
I believe USA has the ability to control enough Tor entry and exit nodes to de-obfuscate most Tor traffic, but chooses to primarily reserve using this capability for "actual" national-security level threats. Feasibility: https://www.securityweek.com/malicious-actor-controlled-23-tor-exit-nodes/ https://www.securityweek.com/malicious-actor-controlled-23-t...
- mmh0000 3y ago
  I believe that only matters if you're going public-internet -> Tor -> public-internet. If you stay within the Tor network, as far as I understand, it is still secure regardless of how many nodes the other side controls.

ETH_start 3y ago

One form of warrantless surveillance persists and expands: warrantless financial surveillance, euphemized as KYC/AML/CTF laws.

baybal2 3y ago
[dead]

hulitu 3y ago

> We can finally end warrantless surveillance in the US > Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) allows the US government to spy on foreigners while also sweeping up “incidental” communications of its own citizens. Haha, this guy is joking. The US spies on its own citizens with or without the Section 702. He references the Snowden revelations so he should know that.

halJordan 3y ago
This nonsensical "I know they're spying" bro science needs pushback. There are very real reasons to increase oversight but no, "Trust me, Snowden," is not one of them. The joke is that everything snowden revealed was either already legal, or shutdown, or made legal if there was a doubt. It's only hurtful for you to regress the conversation, it's not cool cynicism.
- iAMkenough 3y ago
  > The joke is that everything snowden revealed was either already legal, or shutdown, or made legal if there was a doubt. The real joke is that even if you believe some of it should have been illegal, the revelations did little to inspire stronger 4th Amendment protections for a person's digital effects.