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Are you Palestinian, C6JEsQeQa5fCjE? We want to understand what Palestinians mean by "free". What Westerners such as Joe Biden, HRW, Amnesty and American colle

Are you Palestinian, C6JEsQeQa5fCjE? We want to understand what Palestinians mean by "free". What Westerners such as Joe Biden, HRW, Amnesty and American college students think it (should) mean is important, but at the end of the day, when Palestine is free, these people will not be there and Palestinians will. > Those who oppose their freedom will often jump to interpreting their call for freedom in the worst possible way... Perhaps so! Let's apply the Principle of Charity at all times to Palestinian calls for freedom and interpret them in the best possible way! But before we investigate, I will ask you the same question that I asked GP: what evidence if any, no matter how unlikely, would it take to convince you that when Palestinians say "free" they generally mean "free of Jews and other infidels"?

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
Questioning the purity and peacefulness of thoughts and intentions of (a subgroup of) a people living under colonial occupation is satire at best. Check out [1] for one of many well-written articles on this topic. I will only say that if Russia invaded and occupied Finland (again), that the Finnish probably would not appreciate being questioned whether their calls for their freedom are made under absolutely no ill will towards the Russian occupation forces and settlers that are colonizing their territory. [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/10/how-international-law-is-used-to-cover-up-israeli-settler-colonialism https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/10/how-internatio...
- rendall 3y ago
  > Questioning the purity and peacefulness of thoughts and intentions of (a subgroup of) a people living under colonial occupation is satire at best. There is an answer to the question "What do Palestinians generally mean when they say Free Palestine" and it is directly relevant to what will happen when Palestine is freed. Discovering the answer to that question is what we would attempt to do here. And at all times applying the best interpretation possible given the evidence. That is to say, where more than one interpretation is possible, assuming good faith. Perhaps it means only "individual autonomy and personal freedom for all". We make no assumptions. Would you like to investigate with me? Applying history in that way is thinking by analogy, not from first principles. Finland is not Palestine, Russia is not Israel. What principles are you applying to bring you to your political stance? Do they apply equally to Palestians and Israelis? If not why not? What is the principle involved? Is genocide always bad or sometimes ok in the right cause, in your opinion?
  - rendall 3y ago
    But to your point, if there were a serious movement to "Free Karelia" that meant ethnic cleansing of Russians from the area, I would vehemently oppose it. Finland's position wrt to Karelia is more like Jordan wrt the West Bank: released all claims, the Finnic peoples there are governed by Russia, for better or worse. But the analogy is a bad one, really not worth discussing.

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago

Questioning the purity and peacefulness of thoughts and intentions of (a subgroup of) a people living under colonial occupation is satire at best. Check out [1] for one of many well-written articles on this topic. I will only say that if Russia invaded and occupied Finland (again), that the Finnish probably would not appreciate being questioned whether their calls for their freedom are made under absolutely no ill will towards the Russian occupation forces and settlers that are colonizing their territory. [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/10/how-international-law-is-used-to-cover-up-israeli-settler-colonialism https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/10/how-internatio...

rendall 3y ago
> Questioning the purity and peacefulness of thoughts and intentions of (a subgroup of) a people living under colonial occupation is satire at best. There is an answer to the question "What do Palestinians generally mean when they say Free Palestine" and it is directly relevant to what will happen when Palestine is freed. Discovering the answer to that question is what we would attempt to do here. And at all times applying the best interpretation possible given the evidence. That is to say, where more than one interpretation is possible, assuming good faith. Perhaps it means only "individual autonomy and personal freedom for all". We make no assumptions. Would you like to investigate with me? Applying history in that way is thinking by analogy, not from first principles. Finland is not Palestine, Russia is not Israel. What principles are you applying to bring you to your political stance? Do they apply equally to Palestians and Israelis? If not why not? What is the principle involved? Is genocide always bad or sometimes ok in the right cause, in your opinion?
- rendall 3y ago
  But to your point, if there were a serious movement to "Free Karelia" that meant ethnic cleansing of Russians from the area, I would vehemently oppose it. Finland's position wrt to Karelia is more like Jordan wrt the West Bank: released all claims, the Finnic peoples there are governed by Russia, for better or worse. But the analogy is a bad one, really not worth discussing.