4 ms·

I find it impressive that the doom modding community is as vast and varied as it is. I could easily keep myself entertained with doom wads for quick a long tim

I find it impressive that the doom modding community is as vast and varied as it is. I could easily keep myself entertained with doom wads for quick a long time. Is there another game that has that level of dedication? I think sim city 4 does but doom is much much older.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
Part of this comes from its simplicity. Maps are relatively fast to make. DoomBuilder and TrenchBroom have made more 3D maps practical. Duke3D and its engine has a smaller yet continuously active community. There are others.
- iforgotpassword 3y ago
  Agree. I got into duke3d and shadow warrior mapping back in the day. The fact that these games weren't truly 3d mandated that you designed the maps 2d first, ie drawing the layout of the map top-down, and then switching to 3d mode and assign textures to walls and floor/ceiling, as well as adjusting their height. That forced you to approach level design in a specific way, it was easy to get into. When unreal was released I tried to create some maps for it, but was quickly overwhelmed. You're basically thrown into blender and supposed to construct a 3d world from cubes and other simple 3d shapes. I ended up with I think one and a half somewhat decent levels, but they still felt clearly inferior to any of the official maps.
  - hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
    The complexity of modern FPS completely kills the modding possibility. I think DOOM3/Half-Life 2 is the last generation of engines that still allow a decent amount of mods (HL2 does have quite a few high quality mods), but everything afterwards is simply too complicated for hobbyists to compete with professionals.
    - vkou 3y ago
      Skyrim is a counterexample, which is heavily extended through both an officially supported scripting engine, and unsupported code hooks.
      - hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
        I thought about this so I only mentioned FPS :P But still, even with the toolset Skyrim is still pretty time consuming to develop large mods. It won't be possible without its dedicated fans -- which is kind of ordinary for RPG but less for modern FPS.
    - jamesfinlayson 3y ago
      I think Quake/Quake II/Half-Life were the last generation of engines where one person could easily understand the whole engine. Doom 3/Half-Life 2 are approachable too but require a bit more knowledge.
      - hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
        Unreal Tournament I also has a lot of mods so I'd extend the line to around year 2000. It is a bit unique as somehow the package includes all of the code of Unreal Gold (or something close) so modders can easily add single player contents. The editor is also far superior than the VB one bundled with Unreal I.
vkou 3y ago
Thief 2. There's an incredible amount of fan mission content for it, ranging from relatively simple levels, to one-off-masterpieces, to incredibly elaborate full-game-length mission packs. Warcraft 3. It shipped with a powerful but approachable map editor, had thousands of custom maps and game modes, and spawned two separate gaming genres (Tower Defense, MOBAs). Morrowind and Skyrim. Both were solid base games to build on top of, both shipped with a powerful creation kit, and both have an incredible amount of modded content available for them. Technically, Neverwinter Nights would also qualify, but that was less of a game and more of a DnD dungeon master sandbox.
- soulofmischief 3y ago
  What are some of your favorite Thief fan levels?
  - vkou 3y ago
    If you're looking for any unusual recommendations, I'm not the best person to ask! I've only tried the more popular ones, but The Seventh Crystal, Gathering at the Inn, The Inverted Manse are my favorite stand-alone missions.
  - izacus 3y ago
    A big new campign was just released called "Thief: Dark Parade" which has made a lot of buzz across the fanbase for its excellent level design. It has animated cutscenes, voice acting, pretty much on the level of original game(s).
jamesfinlayson 3y ago
> Is there another game that has that level of dedication? Quake is more difficult to mod (map building is more complicated and you need to build models rather than sprites) but it seems to have a few active source ports.
ChickeNES 3y ago
Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 arguably
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Modern-day I'd look at Minecraft or even Roblox; mind you, the latter is less modding and more building things in the tools that the game / dev tools give you.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  Modern Minecraft modding is truly astonishing. The kinds of things they've added to the game are absolutely incredible, and it feels like every couple of months a new mod comes out that makes a huge impact on the landscape. It's very cool. I've been thinking about trying to contribute to some of my favorite mods, but I have to start learning this stuff first.
rvba 3y ago
StarCraft Brood War There are still high level playes participating in tournaments with prizes. Also some custom games scene, but it is much slower than in the past. There is some website that tries to collect custom maps: there are hudreds of thousands of them. StarCeaft spawned: MOBAs, turret defense, even had something similar to Among Us. ..

paulryanrogers 3y ago

Part of this comes from its simplicity. Maps are relatively fast to make. DoomBuilder and TrenchBroom have made more 3D maps practical. Duke3D and its engine has a smaller yet continuously active community. There are others.

iforgotpassword 3y ago
Agree. I got into duke3d and shadow warrior mapping back in the day. The fact that these games weren't truly 3d mandated that you designed the maps 2d first, ie drawing the layout of the map top-down, and then switching to 3d mode and assign textures to walls and floor/ceiling, as well as adjusting their height. That forced you to approach level design in a specific way, it was easy to get into. When unreal was released I tried to create some maps for it, but was quickly overwhelmed. You're basically thrown into blender and supposed to construct a 3d world from cubes and other simple 3d shapes. I ended up with I think one and a half somewhat decent levels, but they still felt clearly inferior to any of the official maps.
- hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
  The complexity of modern FPS completely kills the modding possibility. I think DOOM3/Half-Life 2 is the last generation of engines that still allow a decent amount of mods (HL2 does have quite a few high quality mods), but everything afterwards is simply too complicated for hobbyists to compete with professionals.
  - vkou 3y ago
    Skyrim is a counterexample, which is heavily extended through both an officially supported scripting engine, and unsupported code hooks.
    - hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
      I thought about this so I only mentioned FPS :P But still, even with the toolset Skyrim is still pretty time consuming to develop large mods. It won't be possible without its dedicated fans -- which is kind of ordinary for RPG but less for modern FPS.
  - jamesfinlayson 3y ago
    I think Quake/Quake II/Half-Life were the last generation of engines where one person could easily understand the whole engine. Doom 3/Half-Life 2 are approachable too but require a bit more knowledge.
    - hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
      Unreal Tournament I also has a lot of mods so I'd extend the line to around year 2000. It is a bit unique as somehow the package includes all of the code of Unreal Gold (or something close) so modders can easily add single player contents. The editor is also far superior than the VB one bundled with Unreal I.

vkou 3y ago

Thief 2. There's an incredible amount of fan mission content for it, ranging from relatively simple levels, to one-off-masterpieces, to incredibly elaborate full-game-length mission packs. Warcraft 3. It shipped with a powerful but approachable map editor, had thousands of custom maps and game modes, and spawned two separate gaming genres (Tower Defense, MOBAs). Morrowind and Skyrim. Both were solid base games to build on top of, both shipped with a powerful creation kit, and both have an incredible amount of modded content available for them. Technically, Neverwinter Nights would also qualify, but that was less of a game and more of a DnD dungeon master sandbox.

soulofmischief 3y ago
What are some of your favorite Thief fan levels?
- vkou 3y ago
  If you're looking for any unusual recommendations, I'm not the best person to ask! I've only tried the more popular ones, but The Seventh Crystal, Gathering at the Inn, The Inverted Manse are my favorite stand-alone missions.
- izacus 3y ago
  A big new campign was just released called "Thief: Dark Parade" which has made a lot of buzz across the fanbase for its excellent level design. It has animated cutscenes, voice acting, pretty much on the level of original game(s).

jamesfinlayson 3y ago

> Is there another game that has that level of dedication? Quake is more difficult to mod (map building is more complicated and you need to build models rather than sprites) but it seems to have a few active source ports.

ChickeNES 3y ago

Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 arguably

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Modern-day I'd look at Minecraft or even Roblox; mind you, the latter is less modding and more building things in the tools that the game / dev tools give you.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
Modern Minecraft modding is truly astonishing. The kinds of things they've added to the game are absolutely incredible, and it feels like every couple of months a new mod comes out that makes a huge impact on the landscape. It's very cool. I've been thinking about trying to contribute to some of my favorite mods, but I have to start learning this stuff first.

rvba 3y ago

StarCraft Brood War There are still high level playes participating in tournaments with prizes. Also some custom games scene, but it is much slower than in the past. There is some website that tries to collect custom maps: there are hudreds of thousands of them. StarCeaft spawned: MOBAs, turret defense, even had something similar to Among Us. ..