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Neither the Swiss nor the German executive government is voted for by the people. I guess those aren't presidents, but why does it matter? Oh, by the way, the G

Neither the Swiss nor the German executive government is voted for by the people. I guess those aren't presidents, but why does it matter? Oh, by the way, the German president (who is only a figurehead) is also not elected by the people. Technically, not even the US president is elected directly by the people (but by the electoral council). This is why someone can become president without receiving the popular vote.

Longhanks 3y ago
You're trying really hard to misunderstand my point. The Swiss executive is bound by the referendums, and the German president is of course not the equivalent to the US president in terms of power or political role. But you knew that already, so let's agree that we disagree on what a democracy should look like, shall we?
- camillomiller 3y ago
  In Italy or Germany you don’t vote directly for the Prime Minister either. You vote for the party or coalition that expresses that candidate, but the elected parties usually form a coalition and part of the deal is who’s getting the PM chair. France and the US have what’s called “presidentialism” and they’re mostly outliers in Western democracies.
  - Tainnor 3y ago
    Same with the UK - the latest string of PMs would probably never have been elected by the people.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  > You're trying really hard to misunderstand my point. No, you're missing mine: 1. In no country in the world do the people vote on everything. In many countries, the head of government is not elected directly. 2. Direct democracy is rare and most democracies are representative. 3. The EU's institutions are thus not uniquely undemocratic - they all eventually derive their power from the people. 4. What you're accusing the EU of doing (i.e. bad legislation) is happening elsewhere too (e.g. in the UK). 5. That's because people actually want or are indifferent to such things.

Longhanks 3y ago

You're trying really hard to misunderstand my point. The Swiss executive is bound by the referendums, and the German president is of course not the equivalent to the US president in terms of power or political role. But you knew that already, so let's agree that we disagree on what a democracy should look like, shall we?

camillomiller 3y ago
In Italy or Germany you don’t vote directly for the Prime Minister either. You vote for the party or coalition that expresses that candidate, but the elected parties usually form a coalition and part of the deal is who’s getting the PM chair. France and the US have what’s called “presidentialism” and they’re mostly outliers in Western democracies.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  Same with the UK - the latest string of PMs would probably never have been elected by the people.
Tainnor 3y ago
> You're trying really hard to misunderstand my point. No, you're missing mine: 1. In no country in the world do the people vote on everything. In many countries, the head of government is not elected directly. 2. Direct democracy is rare and most democracies are representative. 3. The EU's institutions are thus not uniquely undemocratic - they all eventually derive their power from the people. 4. What you're accusing the EU of doing (i.e. bad legislation) is happening elsewhere too (e.g. in the UK). 5. That's because people actually want or are indifferent to such things.