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I already think it should be used in zero places. They lie with statistics to make it seem much safer than it really is [0], and Autopilot has a habit of diseng

I already think it should be used in zero places. They lie with statistics to make it seem much safer than it really is [0], and Autopilot has a habit of disengaging 1-2 seconds before a crash, which lets it escape blame [1]. Frankly it's a regulatory failure that let Musk sell vaporware for years. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/04/26/tesla-again-paints-a-very-misleading-story-with-their-crash-data/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/04/26/tesla-... [1] https://futurism.com/tesla-nhtsa-autopilot-report https://futurism.com/tesla-nhtsa-autopilot-report

pavel_lishin 3y ago
> They lie with statistics Yep. For everyone who says, "even with the crashes Autopilot is responsible for, human drivers are still statistically more dangerous!", my response is, "how the fuck do you know given that we've had to pull the truth out of these companies like teeth?"
pcdoodle 3y ago
I'm glad someone is trying hard and dumping resources into a very difficult problem. Selling a dream is most marketing, it's the response and what you learn on the way that bear the fruits.
- ProjectArcturis 3y ago
  Waymo seems to be making better progress without all the lying.
  - pcdoodle 3y ago
    You mean the old google trash bined project that operates with a waitlist and is sandboxed to 2 cities?
    - appplication 3y ago
      > operates with a waitlist and is sandboxed I’m not sure what to say if you think this is a negative.
      - pcdoodle 3y ago
        Not much is learned about the real world living in a sandbox. Great artists ship.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        If you have to put unconsenting others at risk (especially with life and limb) in order to develop your product, your product should not be developed. Developing dangerous technologies in a sandbox is the way it should be done, even if that means it greatly increases the development time.
        pcdoodle 3y ago
        With the way people are driving today, I don't think it really matters much.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        Maybe, maybe not -- but that's not a decision that these companies should make. Consent always matters.
        pcdoodle 3y ago
        Good god, "Space man bad, do thing, make mad".
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
frognumber 3y ago
It depends on whom you compare it to. Consider: - 35 year old, in their prime, old enough to no longer be aggressive, but young enough to be sharp and focused. - 85 year old, losing vision, reflexes, and slightly senile Mostly, what I'd like to see is liability for crashes placed on Tesla. If I kill someone, my insurance pays. If a self-driving car kills someone, manufacturer / manufacturer's insurance pays. That prevents them from offloading costs and incentivizes things like retrofitting safety upgrades. Costs to consumer are the same in both cases, whether it's my insurance premium or whether it's baked into the selling price of the car.

pavel_lishin 3y ago

> They lie with statistics Yep. For everyone who says, "even with the crashes Autopilot is responsible for, human drivers are still statistically more dangerous!", my response is, "how the fuck do you know given that we've had to pull the truth out of these companies like teeth?"

pcdoodle 3y ago

I'm glad someone is trying hard and dumping resources into a very difficult problem. Selling a dream is most marketing, it's the response and what you learn on the way that bear the fruits.

ProjectArcturis 3y ago
Waymo seems to be making better progress without all the lying.
- pcdoodle 3y ago
  You mean the old google trash bined project that operates with a waitlist and is sandboxed to 2 cities?
  - appplication 3y ago
    > operates with a waitlist and is sandboxed I’m not sure what to say if you think this is a negative.
    - pcdoodle 3y ago
      Not much is learned about the real world living in a sandbox. Great artists ship.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        If you have to put unconsenting others at risk (especially with life and limb) in order to develop your product, your product should not be developed. Developing dangerous technologies in a sandbox is the way it should be done, even if that means it greatly increases the development time.
        pcdoodle 3y ago
        With the way people are driving today, I don't think it really matters much.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        Maybe, maybe not -- but that's not a decision that these companies should make. Consent always matters.
        pcdoodle 3y ago
        Good god, "Space man bad, do thing, make mad".
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

frognumber 3y ago

It depends on whom you compare it to. Consider: - 35 year old, in their prime, old enough to no longer be aggressive, but young enough to be sharp and focused. - 85 year old, losing vision, reflexes, and slightly senile Mostly, what I'd like to see is liability for crashes placed on Tesla. If I kill someone, my insurance pays. If a self-driving car kills someone, manufacturer / manufacturer's insurance pays. That prevents them from offloading costs and incentivizes things like retrofitting safety upgrades. Costs to consumer are the same in both cases, whether it's my insurance premium or whether it's baked into the selling price of the car.