5 ms·

Applesauce lead poisoning cases in kids surge amid questions on FDA oversight

75 points by perihelions 3y ago

yawnxyz 3y ago
What a whacky headline from WaPo... they should have added "lead poisoning" in the title
- perihelions 3y ago
  Okay. I (submitter) have edited s/lead/lead poisoning/ in the post title, following the HN guideline "please use the original title, unless it is... misleading". (I'm sure HN's mods will do their own edits, if they think of something better/more precise).
bagels 3y ago
https://archive.is/sdKzx https://archive.is/sdKzx
ed-209 3y ago
Something ironic about access to info on low quality food being behind a paywall. Anyway this isn't a whoopsie or a surprise - FDA is the most transparently criminal part of the whole ediface.
- Forgeties79 3y ago
  Maybe I am misreading your comment, but I feel like the worst offenders/“most criminal” actors should be the ones allowing lead in their products, not the ones who are supposed to catch them.
- goldcd 3y ago
  If it's anything like similar agencies in other countries, it'll be completely understaffed, funding will have been cut in the name of reducing 'big government' - and any infractions it manages to prosecute will end up with minor slaps on the wrist, that won't discourage the next person wanting to cut a corner. Always struck me as odd how few resources actually seem to get spent on the things that obviously keep us safe (clean water, clean air, safe foods etc). I do however admire the dark arts of those that manage to push back the safeguards here, that surely nobody would oppose.
  - wrycoder 3y ago
    The FDA isn't underfunded or understaffed by any stretch of the imagination. Their funding is mis-allocated and not optimally applied to protect the public that pays the funding.
    - pdoege 3y ago
      Are you sure? A quick review of the budget over time shows that the biggest outlays are on food and drugs, which seems correct? In fact the medical drug industry is what, $300B and food is around $1.2T? The FDA is around $8B or .5% of the industry. Seems lowish for proper oversite of 2 really important parts of our lives.
      - wrycoder 3y ago
        Does that include the funding they receive from the drug industry?
- infecto 3y ago
  Agreed. Maybe it’s an unrealistic expectation but I would expect publications to allow some articles to pass the paywall.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
autoexec 3y ago
> In 2021, two congressional reports found that many popular food products made for babies and toddlers contain significant levels of lead, arsenic, cadmium and mercury, yet an action plan to establish voluntary limits by April 2024 appears to have stalled. The reports show that the FDA has known that we've been spooning poison directly into the mouths of our babies for years (since at least 2019) and still the FDA can't even get voluntary limits on how much poison is acceptable in a jar of "Gerber peas and carrots" put in place. Until companies are held meaningfully accountable for selling dangerous products, these kinds of problems will only continue, but the FDA seems to care more about the corporations than the public. I'd love to see the FDA continuously going around the country, randomly pulling products off of shelves, testing them, and then handing out massive fines to companies whose products are unsafe or mislabeled. I'd like to see more ways for people to test food products themselves too.
- nobodyandproud 3y ago
  > I'd like to see more ways for people to test food products themselves too. This is the best way to circumvent the politics and corruption.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    The end result still needs to be accountability or else we're just spending money on test kits as an increasing amount of the food we buy goes right into the trash. It also means that those who can't afford all those kits will end up eating harmful products. This isn't something that can be solved at the consumer level. We need policy here, but in the meantime we should have options to keep our families safe.
    - nobodyandproud 3y ago
      No, but easier consumer testing is part of the solution. I liken this to security: You want layered security. Right now we have maybe one or two layers of detection at best.
      - 3y ago
bell-cot 3y ago
[sigh/] I don't know if current-gen hand-held XRF detection equipment would be sensitive enough to have spotted the tainted products. But it sure sounds simple for an occasional government safety inspector to walk up & down the aisles of grocery stores, drug stores, toy stores, etc. with a detector, looking for unsuspected contamination (with lead, arsenic, cadmium, mercury, or just about any heavy metal).
- fuzzfactor 3y ago
  I would want to use something like this: https://perkinelmer.cl/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/PinAAcle-900-LeadCadmium-in-Food-by-GFAA.pdf https://perkinelmer.cl/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/PinAAcle-9... >Determination of Lead and Cadmium in Foods by Graphite Furnace Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy There are newer, more sensitive, more expensive, and more versatile spectrometers, but one of these would do nicely. It's good to have a technique and and instrument sensitive enough to measure something like drinking water directly, using a small sample, and on our unit fairly automated with the optional accessories, once you had the samples prepared and carefully racked. More costly is the facility capable of properly handling & disposing of the chemicals necessary to accomplish the analysis, along with instrument support equipment like calibrated glassware and balances for precision mass and volume measurement, plus appropriate sample processing (in this case a microwave sample processor). So you can't just put the instrument in your garage and get going realistically. Where would you start? Somewhere other than the spectrometer, basically the instrument itself would be the final icing on the cake. The first step has got to be preparing the samples or you can't make it to step two. Regardless of what type of spectrometer, or even a trace level chemical test kit, what they are really built to test is plain water samples, not applesauce or even more unwaterlike foods. So you need a sample preparation procedure that aggressively "digests" a small amount of food into a watery mixture using a bit of acid, then further dilute it with water afterward so the viscosity is closer to plain water too. And that's the liquid that you test using a spectrometer sensitive enough to do a good job, in spite of dilution (in the linked PDF 0.3 gram of food sample diluted up to 20mL of spectrometer feed). Making that one PDF paragraph on Sample Preparation a proven starting point. You would have to get really good at that before it would make much sense to go much further. OTOH, there's this: https://ideacenter.nd.edu/commercialization-engine/for-industry/available-technologies/device-method-for-detecting-lead-in-water/ https://ideacenter.nd.edu/commercialization-engine/for-indus... Which doesn't depend on as sensitive of a spectrometer, instead reliant on a full 2 Liter sample of the water or waterlike fluid you want to test. IOW you might be able to digest 2 kilos of applesauce, using only a fraction of a liter of acid if you were willing to forget about having it come out in 40 minutes, then concentrate the mineral content efficiently into a small bed of activated carbon by filtration like this. Then end up measuring the lead accurately using the less-sensitive x-ray spectrometer which is available in hand-held format. For the most part without the need for an analytical bench, just a sample preparation bench.
Syonyk 3y ago
The people who refuse to buy stuff at the grocery store and grow all their own food seem less and less nuts these days... :(
- kibwen 3y ago
  Unless their soil contains lead, arsenic, cadmium, or mercury, which in a lot of places it does. Have your soil tested before planting a food garden.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    Doubly so if you were ever warned that your property may contain unexploded ordnance. That sounds shocking, but is a red herring. Unexploded munitions are a malfunction-- being warned about it means someone detonated a large amount of it in your area. Same goes for former/adjacent shooting ranges. Assume the soil is contaminated until tested.
- mcsniff 3y ago
  In what world is insulting self-sufficient and independent people acceptable? "Ah, these people who live life a different way, less reliant on incompetent government and malicious businesses are crazy fringe conspiracy nuts". Millions of people grow their own food for a plethora of reasons, yeah maybe everybody should just be eating poison-laced big box food because they don't want to be labeled "nuts", only to be proven correct time and time again.
infecto 3y ago
I know this is how they make money but I wish publications would make certain articles available with ads when they potentially have solid journalism bringing a story forward.
infecto 3y ago
Unable to read the article, can anyone shed some light if this is related to the case in NC which IIRC was leading towards the seasoning added?
gregwebs 3y ago
There can be lead in almost any man-made good or processed food. And even unprocessed food grown in contaminated soils. Lead is such a ubiquitous contamination that it is worth educating yourself about and getting baseline blood tests. This site has lots of useful information: https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/ The author tests products with an XRF gun and her reports have initiated recalls. It's a commentary on our lack of enforcement and oversight that one individual could be the primary source of information about lead contamination for many. Unfortunately if a company can claim their product is not for use by children than it can't really get recalled and many of us are using dishware with lead in them and have unnecessary lead exposures.
- infecto 3y ago
  While I agree generally, I would caution anyone to follow the woman linked above. She has started a handful of scares before that were false and she has a financial incentive to making these claims. Her use of her XRG equipment has come into question by lab professionals. The most recent example being the lead scare she started around kitchenaid mixers. I agree with the message though, everyone should become educated and be careful especially with children.
  - gregwebs 3y ago
    What’s wrong with her reporting on Kitchen Aid and what’s a better resource?
    - infecto 3y ago
      As far as anyone can tell there has been no additional proof beyond hers. I was quite concerned because I caught wind of it via a Reddit cooking subreddit and from what I could tell there was no contamination. Never a recall, KitchenAid never changed their tune. Some individuals had tested theirs, no issues. So at the end of the day who really knows. I am sure some of the things she tests is truthful but the problem is her testing does not have the greatest standards and the way she comes across seems manic. These sorts of things require rigorous testing and you can never be wrong. Sadly no other resources that I know of. These are the sorts of things that if not the government, a third party nonprofit type rating agency does. Her mom groups are filled with panicked and freaked out individuals which is not wha tit should be.
klipklop 3y ago
This is why the US needs stronger rules about where food is coming from. If I had the choice between Ecuador and Washington state for applesauce I know which country I am picking from a food safety standpoint. Currently for most foods if they are processed in the US they can say it’s a product of the US. For example meat from China processed in the US is sold as US meat. This means you can just repackage it, boom US product! The current rules put profit over consumers being informed where their food comes from.
- infecto 3y ago
  While I also desire better controls in the chain, is what you describe accurate? When I purchase meat I always look and the country of origin is always noticeable. Now I typically only do this with seafood products but maybe I have been buying SA beef before.
- gnulinux 3y ago
  It really depends, and it's not as simple as you imply. US rice for example has more arsenic than any other rice in the world because US soil has more arsenic in it and rice is an arsenic soaking crop. So, if you eat too much rice, you really should avoid US based rice, it contains unhealthy amount of arsenic. It seems like Thailand based rice has the least amount of arsenic in it but I think we need more comprehensive research on this. Sources [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/01/how-much-arsenic-is-in-your-rice/index.htm https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/01/how-muc... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1892142/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1892142/ [3] https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/330866/thai-rice-has-lowest-arsenic https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/330866/thai-rice-has-lo...
trebligdivad 3y ago
I'm confused; there's a huge difference between low level lead contamination generally and a HUGE contamination in this stuff. They're both bad of course; but something major has had to have happened somewhere along the way for this case to happen, and I'm a bit confused why there's not more panic generally happening about the cinnamon/spice supply chains.
- infecto 3y ago
  I would guess not enough people know. As tragic as this is, hopefully this starts some change. It would be powerful to have a third party rating for QC around spices.
infecto 3y ago
Posted too much here already but food supply issues concern me greatly. If anyone else is concerned, one of the quickest things you can do is throw out any of your spices from India and don’t buy anymore in the future. Unclear the origin of this cinnamon but India has been a pretty consistent problem in recent history.
- android42 3y ago
  I recently read about the adulterated tumeric, but the problem is most things just say where they're packaged, not where the ingredients are from.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sciencesama 3y ago
can we measure lead at house ? how much lead wee are consuming ??
sciencesama 3y ago
can we measure how much lead we have in our foods at home ?
refurb 3y ago
This is the original news... FDA and other state partners collected and analyzed additional product samples of fruit puree and applesauce pouches. FDA detected elevated levels of lead in one finished product sample of WanaBana Apple Cinnamon Puree collected from Dollar Tree. The level detected in the FDA sample of WanaBana apple cinnamon puree is 2.18 parts per million (ppm), which, for context, is more than 200 times greater than the action level the FDA has proposed in draft guidance for fruit purees and similar products intended for babies and young children. https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investigation-elevated-lead-levels-cinnamon-applesauce-pouches-november-2023 https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investi... To put it in context this is 2.18 micrograms of lead per gram of apple sauce.

75 points by perihelions 3y ago

yawnxyz 3y ago

What a whacky headline from WaPo... they should have added "lead poisoning" in the title

perihelions 3y ago
Okay. I (submitter) have edited s/lead/lead poisoning/ in the post title, following the HN guideline "please use the original title, unless it is... misleading". (I'm sure HN's mods will do their own edits, if they think of something better/more precise).

bagels 3y ago

https://archive.is/sdKzx https://archive.is/sdKzx

ed-209 3y ago

Something ironic about access to info on low quality food being behind a paywall. Anyway this isn't a whoopsie or a surprise - FDA is the most transparently criminal part of the whole ediface.

Forgeties79 3y ago
Maybe I am misreading your comment, but I feel like the worst offenders/“most criminal” actors should be the ones allowing lead in their products, not the ones who are supposed to catch them.
goldcd 3y ago
If it's anything like similar agencies in other countries, it'll be completely understaffed, funding will have been cut in the name of reducing 'big government' - and any infractions it manages to prosecute will end up with minor slaps on the wrist, that won't discourage the next person wanting to cut a corner. Always struck me as odd how few resources actually seem to get spent on the things that obviously keep us safe (clean water, clean air, safe foods etc). I do however admire the dark arts of those that manage to push back the safeguards here, that surely nobody would oppose.
- wrycoder 3y ago
  The FDA isn't underfunded or understaffed by any stretch of the imagination. Their funding is mis-allocated and not optimally applied to protect the public that pays the funding.
  - pdoege 3y ago
    Are you sure? A quick review of the budget over time shows that the biggest outlays are on food and drugs, which seems correct? In fact the medical drug industry is what, $300B and food is around $1.2T? The FDA is around $8B or .5% of the industry. Seems lowish for proper oversite of 2 really important parts of our lives.
    - wrycoder 3y ago
      Does that include the funding they receive from the drug industry?
infecto 3y ago
Agreed. Maybe it’s an unrealistic expectation but I would expect publications to allow some articles to pass the paywall.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

autoexec 3y ago

> In 2021, two congressional reports found that many popular food products made for babies and toddlers contain significant levels of lead, arsenic, cadmium and mercury, yet an action plan to establish voluntary limits by April 2024 appears to have stalled. The reports show that the FDA has known that we've been spooning poison directly into the mouths of our babies for years (since at least 2019) and still the FDA can't even get voluntary limits on how much poison is acceptable in a jar of "Gerber peas and carrots" put in place. Until companies are held meaningfully accountable for selling dangerous products, these kinds of problems will only continue, but the FDA seems to care more about the corporations than the public. I'd love to see the FDA continuously going around the country, randomly pulling products off of shelves, testing them, and then handing out massive fines to companies whose products are unsafe or mislabeled. I'd like to see more ways for people to test food products themselves too.

nobodyandproud 3y ago
> I'd like to see more ways for people to test food products themselves too. This is the best way to circumvent the politics and corruption.
- autoexec 3y ago
  The end result still needs to be accountability or else we're just spending money on test kits as an increasing amount of the food we buy goes right into the trash. It also means that those who can't afford all those kits will end up eating harmful products. This isn't something that can be solved at the consumer level. We need policy here, but in the meantime we should have options to keep our families safe.
  - nobodyandproud 3y ago
    No, but easier consumer testing is part of the solution. I liken this to security: You want layered security. Right now we have maybe one or two layers of detection at best.
    - 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago

[sigh/] I don't know if current-gen hand-held XRF detection equipment would be sensitive enough to have spotted the tainted products. But it sure sounds simple for an occasional government safety inspector to walk up & down the aisles of grocery stores, drug stores, toy stores, etc. with a detector, looking for unsuspected contamination (with lead, arsenic, cadmium, mercury, or just about any heavy metal).

fuzzfactor 3y ago
I would want to use something like this: https://perkinelmer.cl/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/PinAAcle-900-LeadCadmium-in-Food-by-GFAA.pdf https://perkinelmer.cl/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/PinAAcle-9... >Determination of Lead and Cadmium in Foods by Graphite Furnace Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy There are newer, more sensitive, more expensive, and more versatile spectrometers, but one of these would do nicely. It's good to have a technique and and instrument sensitive enough to measure something like drinking water directly, using a small sample, and on our unit fairly automated with the optional accessories, once you had the samples prepared and carefully racked. More costly is the facility capable of properly handling & disposing of the chemicals necessary to accomplish the analysis, along with instrument support equipment like calibrated glassware and balances for precision mass and volume measurement, plus appropriate sample processing (in this case a microwave sample processor). So you can't just put the instrument in your garage and get going realistically. Where would you start? Somewhere other than the spectrometer, basically the instrument itself would be the final icing on the cake. The first step has got to be preparing the samples or you can't make it to step two. Regardless of what type of spectrometer, or even a trace level chemical test kit, what they are really built to test is plain water samples, not applesauce or even more unwaterlike foods. So you need a sample preparation procedure that aggressively "digests" a small amount of food into a watery mixture using a bit of acid, then further dilute it with water afterward so the viscosity is closer to plain water too. And that's the liquid that you test using a spectrometer sensitive enough to do a good job, in spite of dilution (in the linked PDF 0.3 gram of food sample diluted up to 20mL of spectrometer feed). Making that one PDF paragraph on Sample Preparation a proven starting point. You would have to get really good at that before it would make much sense to go much further. OTOH, there's this: https://ideacenter.nd.edu/commercialization-engine/for-industry/available-technologies/device-method-for-detecting-lead-in-water/ https://ideacenter.nd.edu/commercialization-engine/for-indus... Which doesn't depend on as sensitive of a spectrometer, instead reliant on a full 2 Liter sample of the water or waterlike fluid you want to test. IOW you might be able to digest 2 kilos of applesauce, using only a fraction of a liter of acid if you were willing to forget about having it come out in 40 minutes, then concentrate the mineral content efficiently into a small bed of activated carbon by filtration like this. Then end up measuring the lead accurately using the less-sensitive x-ray spectrometer which is available in hand-held format. For the most part without the need for an analytical bench, just a sample preparation bench.

Syonyk 3y ago

The people who refuse to buy stuff at the grocery store and grow all their own food seem less and less nuts these days... :(

kibwen 3y ago
Unless their soil contains lead, arsenic, cadmium, or mercury, which in a lot of places it does. Have your soil tested before planting a food garden.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  Doubly so if you were ever warned that your property may contain unexploded ordnance. That sounds shocking, but is a red herring. Unexploded munitions are a malfunction-- being warned about it means someone detonated a large amount of it in your area. Same goes for former/adjacent shooting ranges. Assume the soil is contaminated until tested.
mcsniff 3y ago
In what world is insulting self-sufficient and independent people acceptable? "Ah, these people who live life a different way, less reliant on incompetent government and malicious businesses are crazy fringe conspiracy nuts". Millions of people grow their own food for a plethora of reasons, yeah maybe everybody should just be eating poison-laced big box food because they don't want to be labeled "nuts", only to be proven correct time and time again.

infecto 3y ago

I know this is how they make money but I wish publications would make certain articles available with ads when they potentially have solid journalism bringing a story forward.

infecto 3y ago

Unable to read the article, can anyone shed some light if this is related to the case in NC which IIRC was leading towards the seasoning added?

gregwebs 3y ago

There can be lead in almost any man-made good or processed food. And even unprocessed food grown in contaminated soils. Lead is such a ubiquitous contamination that it is worth educating yourself about and getting baseline blood tests. This site has lots of useful information: https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/ The author tests products with an XRF gun and her reports have initiated recalls. It's a commentary on our lack of enforcement and oversight that one individual could be the primary source of information about lead contamination for many. Unfortunately if a company can claim their product is not for use by children than it can't really get recalled and many of us are using dishware with lead in them and have unnecessary lead exposures.

infecto 3y ago
While I agree generally, I would caution anyone to follow the woman linked above. She has started a handful of scares before that were false and she has a financial incentive to making these claims. Her use of her XRG equipment has come into question by lab professionals. The most recent example being the lead scare she started around kitchenaid mixers. I agree with the message though, everyone should become educated and be careful especially with children.
- gregwebs 3y ago
  What’s wrong with her reporting on Kitchen Aid and what’s a better resource?
  - infecto 3y ago
    As far as anyone can tell there has been no additional proof beyond hers. I was quite concerned because I caught wind of it via a Reddit cooking subreddit and from what I could tell there was no contamination. Never a recall, KitchenAid never changed their tune. Some individuals had tested theirs, no issues. So at the end of the day who really knows. I am sure some of the things she tests is truthful but the problem is her testing does not have the greatest standards and the way she comes across seems manic. These sorts of things require rigorous testing and you can never be wrong. Sadly no other resources that I know of. These are the sorts of things that if not the government, a third party nonprofit type rating agency does. Her mom groups are filled with panicked and freaked out individuals which is not wha tit should be.

klipklop 3y ago

This is why the US needs stronger rules about where food is coming from. If I had the choice between Ecuador and Washington state for applesauce I know which country I am picking from a food safety standpoint. Currently for most foods if they are processed in the US they can say it’s a product of the US. For example meat from China processed in the US is sold as US meat. This means you can just repackage it, boom US product! The current rules put profit over consumers being informed where their food comes from.

infecto 3y ago
While I also desire better controls in the chain, is what you describe accurate? When I purchase meat I always look and the country of origin is always noticeable. Now I typically only do this with seafood products but maybe I have been buying SA beef before.
gnulinux 3y ago
It really depends, and it's not as simple as you imply. US rice for example has more arsenic than any other rice in the world because US soil has more arsenic in it and rice is an arsenic soaking crop. So, if you eat too much rice, you really should avoid US based rice, it contains unhealthy amount of arsenic. It seems like Thailand based rice has the least amount of arsenic in it but I think we need more comprehensive research on this. Sources [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/01/how-much-arsenic-is-in-your-rice/index.htm https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/01/how-muc... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1892142/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1892142/ [3] https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/330866/thai-rice-has-lowest-arsenic https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/330866/thai-rice-has-lo...

trebligdivad 3y ago

I'm confused; there's a huge difference between low level lead contamination generally and a HUGE contamination in this stuff. They're both bad of course; but something major has had to have happened somewhere along the way for this case to happen, and I'm a bit confused why there's not more panic generally happening about the cinnamon/spice supply chains.

infecto 3y ago
I would guess not enough people know. As tragic as this is, hopefully this starts some change. It would be powerful to have a third party rating for QC around spices.

infecto 3y ago

Posted too much here already but food supply issues concern me greatly. If anyone else is concerned, one of the quickest things you can do is throw out any of your spices from India and don’t buy anymore in the future. Unclear the origin of this cinnamon but India has been a pretty consistent problem in recent history.

android42 3y ago
I recently read about the adulterated tumeric, but the problem is most things just say where they're packaged, not where the ingredients are from.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sciencesama 3y ago

can we measure lead at house ? how much lead wee are consuming ??

sciencesama 3y ago

can we measure how much lead we have in our foods at home ?

refurb 3y ago

This is the original news... FDA and other state partners collected and analyzed additional product samples of fruit puree and applesauce pouches. FDA detected elevated levels of lead in one finished product sample of WanaBana Apple Cinnamon Puree collected from Dollar Tree. The level detected in the FDA sample of WanaBana apple cinnamon puree is 2.18 parts per million (ppm), which, for context, is more than 200 times greater than the action level the FDA has proposed in draft guidance for fruit purees and similar products intended for babies and young children. https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investigation-elevated-lead-levels-cinnamon-applesauce-pouches-november-2023 https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investi... To put it in context this is 2.18 micrograms of lead per gram of apple sauce.