4 ms·

Old HP was something special, people here might not be aware that they were a leading test equipment company back then not just a PC maker. That business was sp

by m-ee 3y ago

Old HP was something special, people here might not be aware that they were a leading test equipment company back then not just a PC maker. That business was spun off as Agilent then spun off again as Keysight. At a previous job we purchased a 3458a multimeter for some precision measurements. Its use cases are more limited now than in 1989 when it was introduced, but for high precision it's still the standard and the design is practically unchanged. They published a very in depth article on its ADC design at the time. https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1989-04.pdf https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1989-04.pdf

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
I cut my programming teeth, designing ATE (Automated Test and Evaluation) systems, composed, chiefly, of HP (or Tektronix) devices. HP kit was eye-wateringly expensive (and worth it), back then.
brutopia 3y ago
Wow, nobody’s certainly doing that anymore
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Because 1989 China didn't have the knowhow and industrial capability to reverse engineer, copy and manufacture your cutting edge HW designs and then undercut you, so there was no risk in publishing your know-how out in the open. It's no coincidence the rise of Huawei coincided with the fall of Nortel. I recently saw a tech youtuber from my home country review a bootleg iPhone 15 Pro Max, and it was very difficult to tell them apart HW wise unless you really knew what to look for. Same with bootleg AirPods Pros, they even automatically connect to your genuine iPhone when you flip open their case, and only with a recent iOS update does the iPhone warn you they are not genuine AirPods Pros. Insane.
  - vbezhenar 3y ago
    https://youtu.be/_yU4dSE1HTQ https://youtu.be/_yU4dSE1HTQ This video is Russian, but you can discard voice. It's pirate copy of iPhone 14. I couldn't tell the difference, at least from that video. That's really lot of effort gone to copy. Those who did that really deserve a respect.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Those who did that really deserve a respect. Yes, same how a lot of fancy non-state-sponsored malware is developed by russian/chinese/iranian hackers. Obviously those skills could be put to much better use for good causes than bootlegging iPhones or writing malware, but that's what happens when you're born in a country with no good honest economic opportunities: crime is much more lucrative as no matter how smart and hard working you are, the local legal jobs and business opportunities are still shit.
    - user_7832 3y ago
      > I couldn't tell the difference, at least from that video. Here's an easy giveaway - the bottom bezel isn't symmetrical in width. Getting uniform bezels requires flexible OLED screens (and a few other oled adjectives I've forgotten), and all this is much harder to engineer and a fair bit more expensive. So far other than Apple, only Samsung and Google Pixels appear to be capable of having uniform bezels.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >Here's an easy giveaway - the bottom bezel isn't symmetrical in width. Sure, but they're not designed to fool those who already owned a recent iPhone, but to fool those that never owned a recent iPhone and are just buying their first iPhone now which so are easily fooled if they only get to play with it for a couple of minutes in a parking lot somewhere, before handing over the cash. It's how this scam works in developing countries. You buy bootleg iPhones from Alibaba for $150 and sell them for $800 in a parking lot to a clueless dude looking to buy his first iPhone who can't afford the $1400 sticker price because that's way more than his monthly wage.
  - gosub100 3y ago
    Good, that's a free, efficient market. If airpods cost $22 to make, they shouldn't sell them for $200. If you do, don't be surprised when someone sells them for $60. The whole reason they manufacture in China in the first place is to avoid paying livable wages in a free society that has environmental protection laws. Screw them.
- baz00 3y ago
  They are. HP’s measurement division was spun off into Agilent. Then off to Keysight. They are absolute bastards now and a shadow of their former self. But they still sell the 3458A
baz00 3y ago
Keysight still sell those. But yes that. I have a fair bit of HP test gear lying around dating from 60s to 90s. And a few RPN calculators!
- m-ee 3y ago
  Yup, ours was a factory fresh Keysight branded model
varjag 3y ago
Yep, there's a whole YouTube genre of fussing with pre-Fionacide HP test equipment. We have a couple pieces in the lab. The internals are a sight to behold, built with their period's best technology and no costs to spare.
- m-ee 3y ago
  Working with it had me oddly sentimental. Most of my measurements are 12V or less and not especially precise, so I'll reach for my Saleae before even using a modern scope or DMM much less a beast like the 3458a. But it was simultaneously a swansong for a bygone era of engineering while still proving the old tech can hold its own more than 30 years later. It felt a bit like having a Concorde sitting on my lab bench. Like you said if you open it up you can immediately tell a lot of thought and care went into making these things.
consp 3y ago
> Old HP was something special, people here might not be aware that they were a leading test equipment company back then not just a PC maker. That business was spun off as Agilent then spun off again as Keysight. This sure sounds like a MBA beancounter desease gone cancerous.

by m-ee 3y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

I cut my programming teeth, designing ATE (Automated Test and Evaluation) systems, composed, chiefly, of HP (or Tektronix) devices. HP kit was eye-wateringly expensive (and worth it), back then.

brutopia 3y ago

Wow, nobody’s certainly doing that anymore

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Because 1989 China didn't have the knowhow and industrial capability to reverse engineer, copy and manufacture your cutting edge HW designs and then undercut you, so there was no risk in publishing your know-how out in the open. It's no coincidence the rise of Huawei coincided with the fall of Nortel. I recently saw a tech youtuber from my home country review a bootleg iPhone 15 Pro Max, and it was very difficult to tell them apart HW wise unless you really knew what to look for. Same with bootleg AirPods Pros, they even automatically connect to your genuine iPhone when you flip open their case, and only with a recent iOS update does the iPhone warn you they are not genuine AirPods Pros. Insane.
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  https://youtu.be/_yU4dSE1HTQ https://youtu.be/_yU4dSE1HTQ This video is Russian, but you can discard voice. It's pirate copy of iPhone 14. I couldn't tell the difference, at least from that video. That's really lot of effort gone to copy. Those who did that really deserve a respect.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Those who did that really deserve a respect. Yes, same how a lot of fancy non-state-sponsored malware is developed by russian/chinese/iranian hackers. Obviously those skills could be put to much better use for good causes than bootlegging iPhones or writing malware, but that's what happens when you're born in a country with no good honest economic opportunities: crime is much more lucrative as no matter how smart and hard working you are, the local legal jobs and business opportunities are still shit.
  - user_7832 3y ago
    > I couldn't tell the difference, at least from that video. Here's an easy giveaway - the bottom bezel isn't symmetrical in width. Getting uniform bezels requires flexible OLED screens (and a few other oled adjectives I've forgotten), and all this is much harder to engineer and a fair bit more expensive. So far other than Apple, only Samsung and Google Pixels appear to be capable of having uniform bezels.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Here's an easy giveaway - the bottom bezel isn't symmetrical in width. Sure, but they're not designed to fool those who already owned a recent iPhone, but to fool those that never owned a recent iPhone and are just buying their first iPhone now which so are easily fooled if they only get to play with it for a couple of minutes in a parking lot somewhere, before handing over the cash. It's how this scam works in developing countries. You buy bootleg iPhones from Alibaba for $150 and sell them for $800 in a parking lot to a clueless dude looking to buy his first iPhone who can't afford the $1400 sticker price because that's way more than his monthly wage.
- gosub100 3y ago
  Good, that's a free, efficient market. If airpods cost $22 to make, they shouldn't sell them for $200. If you do, don't be surprised when someone sells them for $60. The whole reason they manufacture in China in the first place is to avoid paying livable wages in a free society that has environmental protection laws. Screw them.
baz00 3y ago
They are. HP’s measurement division was spun off into Agilent. Then off to Keysight. They are absolute bastards now and a shadow of their former self. But they still sell the 3458A

baz00 3y ago

Keysight still sell those. But yes that. I have a fair bit of HP test gear lying around dating from 60s to 90s. And a few RPN calculators!

m-ee 3y ago
Yup, ours was a factory fresh Keysight branded model

varjag 3y ago

Yep, there's a whole YouTube genre of fussing with pre-Fionacide HP test equipment. We have a couple pieces in the lab. The internals are a sight to behold, built with their period's best technology and no costs to spare.

m-ee 3y ago
Working with it had me oddly sentimental. Most of my measurements are 12V or less and not especially precise, so I'll reach for my Saleae before even using a modern scope or DMM much less a beast like the 3458a. But it was simultaneously a swansong for a bygone era of engineering while still proving the old tech can hold its own more than 30 years later. It felt a bit like having a Concorde sitting on my lab bench. Like you said if you open it up you can immediately tell a lot of thought and care went into making these things.

consp 3y ago

> Old HP was something special, people here might not be aware that they were a leading test equipment company back then not just a PC maker. That business was spun off as Agilent then spun off again as Keysight. This sure sounds like a MBA beancounter desease gone cancerous.