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> The lack of automation is causing ATC work to be stressful. … > And it would free up ATC staff and pilots to do more urgent things. There’s a problem that ca

> The lack of automation is causing ATC work to be stressful. … > And it would free up ATC staff and pilots to do more urgent things. There’s a problem that can happen with this, though, wherein the “easy” routine work is automated out and the number of humans involved is scaled down, but the work those people do then winds up being 100% the urgent/stressful stuff. I’ve heard that ER doctors have been experiencing this in recent years–not quite with automation so much as just offloading, as less serious cases are picked up by nurse practitioners/urgent care centers, staffing has been adjusted and the actual physicians wind up with a steady stream of stressful high-acuity cases back to back to back.

michaelt 3y ago
I agree we might need a minimum staff level of, say, 1 air traffic controller per airport, but unless I've been grievously misinformed about the safety of flying, urgent/stressful emergencies should be very rare. I suspect the main thing limiting ATC automation is the fact ATC is all done by voice using incredibly shitty radios, and equipment upgrades take like 50 years to roll out.
davemp 3y ago
> I’ve heard that ER doctors have been experiencing this in recent years–not quite with automation so much as just offloading, as less serious cases are picked up by nurse practitioners/urgent care centers, staffing has been adjusted and the actual physicians wind up with a steady stream of stressful high-acuity cases back to back to back. Yet at the same time, ERs (near me at least) are still inundated with so many patients that average wait times are 4-5hrs.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tharkun__ 3y ago
  Maybe you are in an oasis of reason where this doesn't happen. But most ERs I have heard of that are overcrowded is because people go to the emergency room when there is no actual emergency.
  - phatskat 3y ago
    I’m sure there’s a number of reasons for this - after about 5 PM, your options are typically the ER or an urgent care. UC’s usually require payment up front, and for people who either don’t have insurance or who have high deductibles, the cost of care at a hospital (which is way more but can be put off) vs the up front cost of urgent care probably pushes people towards ERs. There’s likely other factors - lack of medical education/first aid, consulting Dr Google and then having anxiety that maybe that slight pain is something horrible, etc. A public health system could alleviate this stress, if done well. Clinics that are open later than “business hours”, readily accessible telehealth providers, and better public health education could all come about from a public system. Privatized, all of these can only exist with a profit motive, and the insurance and health system are costly.
fallingknife 3y ago
Isn't that how it should be? Why should a highly paid doctor ever be involved in a routine case that could easily be handled by a nurse? As an engineer I only get tickets that are too difficult to be handled by support and require code changes. Why should medicine be any different?
- tass 3y ago
  Software doesn’t quite have the same fungibility to allow for this, but imagine your job was only being responsible for urgent, high severity tickets throughout your company. There was no time to mull over a problem, pair code with a peer or junior, or talk to a product owner because everything was urgent and on fire.
jfim 3y ago
Another reason not to scale down the number of humans is that they're needed when automation breaks. Planes could very well fly themselves 99%+ of the time, but you want to have pilots when there are in flight issues that aren't handled by automation.

michaelt 3y ago

I agree we might need a minimum staff level of, say, 1 air traffic controller per airport, but unless I've been grievously misinformed about the safety of flying, urgent/stressful emergencies should be very rare. I suspect the main thing limiting ATC automation is the fact ATC is all done by voice using incredibly shitty radios, and equipment upgrades take like 50 years to roll out.

davemp 3y ago

> I’ve heard that ER doctors have been experiencing this in recent years–not quite with automation so much as just offloading, as less serious cases are picked up by nurse practitioners/urgent care centers, staffing has been adjusted and the actual physicians wind up with a steady stream of stressful high-acuity cases back to back to back. Yet at the same time, ERs (near me at least) are still inundated with so many patients that average wait times are 4-5hrs.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tharkun__ 3y ago
Maybe you are in an oasis of reason where this doesn't happen. But most ERs I have heard of that are overcrowded is because people go to the emergency room when there is no actual emergency.
- phatskat 3y ago
  I’m sure there’s a number of reasons for this - after about 5 PM, your options are typically the ER or an urgent care. UC’s usually require payment up front, and for people who either don’t have insurance or who have high deductibles, the cost of care at a hospital (which is way more but can be put off) vs the up front cost of urgent care probably pushes people towards ERs. There’s likely other factors - lack of medical education/first aid, consulting Dr Google and then having anxiety that maybe that slight pain is something horrible, etc. A public health system could alleviate this stress, if done well. Clinics that are open later than “business hours”, readily accessible telehealth providers, and better public health education could all come about from a public system. Privatized, all of these can only exist with a profit motive, and the insurance and health system are costly.

fallingknife 3y ago

Isn't that how it should be? Why should a highly paid doctor ever be involved in a routine case that could easily be handled by a nurse? As an engineer I only get tickets that are too difficult to be handled by support and require code changes. Why should medicine be any different?

tass 3y ago
Software doesn’t quite have the same fungibility to allow for this, but imagine your job was only being responsible for urgent, high severity tickets throughout your company. There was no time to mull over a problem, pair code with a peer or junior, or talk to a product owner because everything was urgent and on fire.

jfim 3y ago

Another reason not to scale down the number of humans is that they're needed when automation breaks. Planes could very well fly themselves 99%+ of the time, but you want to have pilots when there are in flight issues that aren't handled by automation.