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Ask HN: Should I subscribe to ChatGPT Plus if we can get it for free on Bing?

• tempestn 3y ago
  I haven't used it through Bing recently, but last I tried, I found whatever custom prompt and/or tuning they're using made it much more cumbersome than chatgpt plus. It's far less willing to give you answers from training data, and instead wants to search the web for everything. Sometimes that's useful, when you want it to search a website for a particular piece of information, say. But most of the time I can more effectively search the web myself. Where I find gpt-4 most useful is when it can give me answers, or at least a starting point, directly from its "knowledge". (Which I would of course verify as necessary.) Like I said though, I haven't used it recently. I've added a custom prompt to chatgpt to only search the web when necessary, if it can't provide a good answer otherwise; if you can now do something similar with Bing chat, and it respects it, maybe it will work fine. (Though when I did try it a while back, I found it more restricted in general; the web searching was just the most obvious thing.)
  • soundarana 3y ago
    I didn't use Bing chat that much, but everytime I've added "do not search" to the prompt it respected it.
• teddyX 3y ago
  Do you need api access? If so you need to either pay Microsoft (azure) or OpenAI
• DeathArrow 3y ago
  Is Github Copilot Chat using GPT4 or GPT3.5? I already have Copilot Chat trough Copilot subscription.
  • throwuwu 3y ago
    It’s using 4 turbo but it’s through a custom assistant
• mrtksn 3y ago
  In my experience, what you get on Bing is quite different from what you get on ChatGTP. I would prefer the free ChatGPT 3.5 over what I get on Bing because Bing counts down the responses and tends to give much shorter answers. Here is an example for Bing Chat vs ChatGPT Plus: https://dropover.cloud/4e1dd7 https://dropover.cloud/4e1dd7 If you don't plan to use it enough to worth $20 a month, you can purchase some API credits from OpenAI which don't expire and use it directly from their developer playground. Actually, IIRC they will give you some free credit valid for some time when you create an account on their developer platform so you should be able to give it a try yourself. Go to: https://platform.openai.com https://platform.openai.com Create a new free account, then head to the http://platform.openai.com/playground http://platform.openai.com/playground and try out ChatGPT with GPT-4(might be unavailable on free credit until you top-up some money) on their Chat interface.
  • throwaway77384 3y ago
    I seem to only be given a selection of 3.5 type models if following those steps.
    • mrtksn 3y ago
      Your screen should look like this and you should be able to select GPT-4 from the menu: https://dropovercl.s3.amazonaws.com/c4606813-cbc5-4f66-b4f7-88452c273985/35d2a348-41bd-462b-a4b5-15ab6af0057b/4e78f947-1fe1-4f09-92c3-94aefb4b571d.png https://dropovercl.s3.amazonaws.com/c4606813-cbc5-4f66-b4f7-... If the GPT-4 options don't appear, maybe they don't give them to non-paying users? If that's the case, you can add something like 5$ credit to your account.
    • globalise83 3y ago
      You might have to top up with a few $ of prepaid credits before you get access for the first time. https://help.openai.com/en/articles/8264644-what-is-prepaid-billing https://help.openai.com/en/articles/8264644-what-is-prepaid-...
      • gtirloni 3y ago
• theshrike79 3y ago
  What you should do is use a local application like MindMac or similar and use GPT-4 via the API. It's a _lot_ cheaper unless you use it really heavily. I've yet to break $10/month (+taxes)
  • thegabriele 3y ago
    Very polished. Is there anything similar for windows?
    • Palmik 3y ago
      There are many free GPT frontends, especially web frontends, e.g. https://github.com/yakGPT/yakGPT https://github.com/yakGPT/yakGPT
      • layer8 3y ago
        “Anything similar for Windows” would mean a native application, like MindMac is on macOS.
      • hackerlight 3y ago
        Does this support the new tailored "GPTs" that just got released?
    • theshrike79 3y ago
      There's also an implementation that works as a Discord bot: https://github.com/Zero6992/chatGPT-discord-bot https://github.com/Zero6992/chatGPT-discord-bot You host the bot yourself so nobody else can see what you're doing.
  • suslik 3y ago
    The pricing looks rather steep. Does it bring any benefits relative to just using openai playground?
    • theshrike79 3y ago
• jbc1 3y ago
  The API is pay per use. $1 minimum spend before you can use gpt4 and they take a while to bill you. It’s a separate thing to the $20/month chatgpt plus subscription.
• chrismorgan 3y ago
  Nigh-exact duplicate thread from 22 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38316790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38316790
• bionhoward 3y ago
  Neither, use Bard, because both OpenAI and Microsoft have Customer Noncompete Clauses in their Terms of Use.
• qwertox 3y ago
  Ever since (custom) GPTs got released last month, GPT-4 has become pretty much unusable around 2/3 of the time, performance-wise. Tons of network errors. So, no, it's no longer worth it. At least not until they free up resources for paying customers by moving those useless, resource-consuming toys somewhere else.
  • nicce 3y ago
    For me it has been fastest ever for the past few days. You don't need to wait forever for text generation to finish anymore.
• longnguyen 3y ago
  I didn't use Bing much but in my experience, it's a lot harder to achieve what I want. For example, it almost always search the web for an answer which is a hit or miss for me. If you want to use GPTs or to generate images with Dall-E then ChatGPT Plus is a no brainer I guess. But if your focus is on GPT-4 then I highly recommend to use an API instead. There are multiple pros of using an API Key: - You pay for your usages. I've been using API Key exclusively and most of the time, it cost me around $5-$10 a month - Your data is not used for training. This is important for a privacy-minded user like me. Though you can disable this in ChatGPT (but you will lose chat history) - No message limit. Though there are rate limits to prevent abuse but generally, you do not have the message limit like the ChatGPT - You can choose previous GPT models. In my experience, `gpt-4-0314` was the peak gpt-4 model. Depends on the applications, you can also get these: - Access to multiple AI services: OpenAI, Azure or OpenRouter - Build custom AI workflows - Voice search & text-to-speech etc. - Deeper integrations with other apps & services There are also a few cons: - No GPTs support yet - If you use Dall E a lot then ChatGPT plus is more affordable. Generating images using Dall E API can be quite expensive Edit: Some tips when using an API Key: - You pay for tokens used (basically how long your question & AI's answers). The price per chat message is not expensive, but usually you will need to send the whole conversation to OpenAI, which makes it expensive. Make sure to pick an app that allows you to limit the chat context. - Don't use GPT-4 for tasks that doesn't require deeper reasoning capabilities. I find that GPT-3.5 turbo is still very good at simple tasks like: grammar fixes, improve your writing, translations ... - Use different system prompts for different tasks: for example, I have a special prompt for coding tasks, and a different system prompt for writing tasks. It usually give a much better result. Shameless plug: I've been building a native ChatGPT app for Mac called BoltAI[0], give it a try [0]: https://boltai.com https://boltai.com
  • enginaar 3y ago
    kudos for perpetual license. app looks neat. non-techy question: how do you ensure users their keys are safe?
    • longnguyen 3y ago
      Thanks. By default, BoltAI stores user's API key in Apple Keychain. So other applications and scripts won't be able to access this key without triggering the OS's security dialog. Secondly, all requests are sent directly to OpenAI servers. There is absolutely no middle/proxy server. There is however a proxy server for Claude but this was due to a technical difficulty and user can host their own proxy server instead.
• Sunhold 3y ago
  The custom GPTs are convenient. Instead of digging through my collection of prompts for different tasks, I just click one of my custom GPTs that has been preinstructed.
• skygazer 3y ago
  I actually find Bing superficial and impatient compared to ChatGPT-4-Turbo, and way more inclined to give partial or incomplete answers, and jump to unsubstantiated conclusions and give more “hot takes” where chatGPT is way more circumspect. Bing is oddly more likely to hallucinate, and even give hallucinated links, which fortunately the UI strips out. Bing really feels like a different GPT 4 — tuned for brevity and to reduce resource utilization. (Except for images. Bing wants to generate images for no reason, while chatGPT sometimes double checks to make sure you really want one, and has scaled back the number of simultaneous variants it generated from 4 to 1, although no limit that I’ve reached yet.) Bing has a max turns per chat limit I think around 20 or 25 at the moment, at least with the purple (formerly “Creative”) GPT 4 model. ChatGPT doesn’t have conversation limits, although older text falls out of context. Bing created that limit to prevent the model from going unhinged after too many turns, which happened frequently with Bing but almost never with ChatGPT for some reason. I’ve also hit a daily limit on Bing while not on chatGPT+ — chatGPT4 currently has a 30 turn limit within 3 hours, although I’ve rarely hit that outside of long voice chats. I do try to cram multiple questions into one go, to conserve turns though. Or I give certain tasks like summaries to chatgpt3.5 as it’s faster with no quota. Plugins were briefly interesting. Maybe the new custom GPTs will become a must, but not yet. Oh, and the python runtime environment is epic. It can literally build its own tools to answer questions. If I couldn’t afford $20 a month, I could maybe make do with Bing, but if I could afford it, I think chatGPT is very worth it. You mentioned the API, which is a whole different thing than the $20/mo chatGPT subscription. It’s usage based, and designed to allow you to integrate GPT into other software and services. It has different models and different pricing tiers. I use both chatGPT and the API, though the API I use only lightly for personal use and it hasn’t consumed my first $5 deposit yet. There are also chatGPT like third party clients that take an API key and act like chatGPT and depending on your usage may cost less or more than the normal chatGPT subscription.
  • Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
    It is believed that the characteristics you mention in the first few paragraphs are because Bing is based on an old pre-release version of GPT-4, which didn't have all the guardrails that the final versions have (note that Bing Chat was released before access to GPT-4 was available directly from OpenAI).
• fwn 3y ago
  I pay for ChatGPT to get the option to avoid the promt history and training on my promts. If there is a way to do this for free, I'd love to know about it. The article does not seem to take it into account.
  • blissfulresup 3y ago
    On iOS open ChatGPT app -> settings -> data controls -> disable chat history & training toggle It’s something similar on the web
  • SushiHippie 3y ago
    https://privacy.openai.com/policies https://privacy.openai.com/policies "do not train on my data request"
• chinchang 3y ago
  Bing's responses are not at all same as GPT-4. I don't know the exact reason but they are definitely not using the same model or base instructions. GPT-4's responses are far better.
• tempaccount1234 3y ago
  I currently pay because I use it a lot on my iPad and phone in addition to the web. Anyone have a recommendation on how to use api access on mobile? Then changing might be worth it
  • motoboi 3y ago
    Use an alternative frontend like Chatbot-ui or takeoffchat. They let you use your own api key
    • danielbln 3y ago
      Anyone know of a good Assistant API frontend yet?
      • SushiHippie 3y ago
        The author of LibreChat [0] teaserd on discord that he's working on one. LibreChat is already the best "chatgpt ui" clone I could find (it has some rough edges, but not as many as the official chatgpt ui). [0] https://github.com/danny-avila/librechat https://github.com/danny-avila/librechat Was also recently discussed here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502805
• jafitc 3y ago
  Important note: Bing balanced mode (default) uses GPT 3.5 Only Precise and Creative modes use GPT-4 https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1732495030143549541 https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1732495030143549541 Also see: An Opinionated Guide to Which AI to Use: ChatGPT Anniversary Edition https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/an-opinionated-guide-to-which-ai https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/an-opinionated-guide-to-whi...
• ysofunny 3y ago
  now you see why openAI's had to go through the whole board Vs sam altman showdown
• DemocracyFTW2 3y ago
  > is it worth it to pay $20 [...]? I always object when someone tells me "it's (only) X $ / Y $" and I know for me the relevant part that I want to say out loud is per month, as in, it's a subscription, not a one-time or prepaid amount. I've rid myself of all subscriptions to the degree feasible because whether it's 'little' or 'much' it is recurring, per month so there will likely come a point in the future where I'll just pay without really using that thing anymore or where I forget or can't pay or where I have to pay although that sum could better be spent elsewhere. This is my experience with all subscriptions. I'm even getting my cooking gas as 'prepaid' (i.e. I buy bottles) and I wish I could do the same with electricity and so on. So I'm totally fine with getting a gift card or whatever you call those thingies in the supermarket where you can throw a lump (20€, 50€) at some provider (Google Play, whatever) and then get to eat up that amount (over the course of at least one year, hopefully). By comparison, I wouldn't sign up even for 1€/month even tho I might get the same for 'less' money—it won't be less, and when you listen to Marie Myers (HP CFO, [1]), corporate knows darn well this is so. * [1](https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/04/hp_printer_lockin/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/04/hp_printer_lockin/)
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • cheschire 3y ago
    “Never subscribing” is of course one approach. Another would be “know your exits and keep a budget”.
    • danielbln 3y ago
      Yeah, I feel "I never subscribe because I forget about the fact that I subscribed" is a statement indicative of a different problem.
      • etrautmann 3y ago
        Really though? When even toothbrushes want recurring revenue, it’s so easy to rack up services. I feel like I’m more conventional than OP but still avoid monthly subscriptions if at all possible (though pay for ChatGPT and other things that are worth it for me)
• yuppie_scum 3y ago
  Get the API and a client like MacGPT.
• roschdal 3y ago
  No. Use your own mind.
• sschueller 3y ago
  Use the API and find a client that works for you. I find I spend way less than 20 per month.
• muskmusk 3y ago
  Yes.
• hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
  Spin up a temporary credit card using a service like Wise, pay for 1 month, and then close the card. If you're like me you'll switch it to your normal debit card within a week. $20 a month is enough of a commitment in the developed world to sting just a bit on something you're not even sure you'll use much - but $20 once, as an exploratory measure, is a much easier proposition to justify.
• RecycledEle 3y ago
  I pay $21 a month (after tax) for GPT Plus because Bing limits me to one prompt without followups; I can not carry on a conversation. GPT Plus lets me respond to what the AI told me.
• speedgoose 3y ago
  Bing tends to stop the conversation when it receives harsh criticism. ChatGPT will be sorry and try to do better.
• butz 3y ago
  If service is hidden behind a login, it's probably not free at all. Of course, nowadays no one can guarantee that even after paying subscription your personal data won't be used in some peculiar ways.
• KolenCh 3y ago
  I’d say just try it for a month and see. Only you can tell if it is worth for you. In this case being able to subscribe for a month only (compare to others which might have a much more expensive per month fee if not paid annually) is an advantage you should take. What you said is exactly what I thought. And above is what I did and I’m glad I made that experiment (of trying ChatGPT Plus.) By the end of that subscription month, the question I asked is if it helps me enough to save me time worth more than $20/months. In that sense unlike other comments, I don’t care if it is recurring cost, in any month that its effectiveness didn’t shave me $20 worth of time then I’ll unsubscribe it.