5 ms·

Or maybe ACT test scores have plummeted because these students have experienced 1-2 years of remote teaching, which might have been less effective than in-perso

by gpt5 3y ago

Or maybe ACT test scores have plummeted because these students have experienced 1-2 years of remote teaching, which might have been less effective than in-person school?

woodruffw 3y ago
Per the comment thread, this doesn't have perfect explanatory power: drivers and ATC have also recorded statistically significant declines over the same time period. In other words: remote schooling may have had a negative effect on ACT scores, but all evidence points to it not being the only (or even primary) effect.
- dangus 3y ago
  Regarding this thread, I really want to caution on the desire to automatically assign worse car crash rates to covid-19 infections, or any other specific cause. Car crashes and ATC mistakes are two different sets of data. Just because they are going up or down at the same time and you can overlay some other event on top of it means absolutely nothing on its own. There are a lot more reasons that car crash rates can be getting worse. For one thing, they have been trending upwards since smartphones have become prevalent. Car crashes weren't trending down for some time before covid-19. Also, the number of screens installed on automobile dashboards is increasing every year. Still, I won't automatically assign blame to smartphones or automotive screens unless someone at least attempting to use the scientific method weighs in on the subject, because our intuitions about statistics are often really, really wrong.
  - 10u152 3y ago
    Distractions might be going up in cars, but I’d guess that’s offset by automatic crash avoidance systems that’s also going up in cars.
    - orbit7 3y ago
      I had a new car for a month (mine got damaged whilst parked). Simply adjusting the aircon fan required screen navigation followed by a fidly touch screen control. The crash avoidance systen was a distracting alert that took my attention away from the road for none risks but instead increased there likelyhood to become a risk. Glad to get my own car back with physical switches and dials without all this crap, having to operate a tablet behind the wheel is a dumb idea and no different to operating a smart phone behind the wheel.
  - arcanemachiner 3y ago
    > Car crashes and ATC mistakes are two different sets of data. Just because they are going up or down at the same time and you can overlay some other event on top of it means absolutely nothing on its own. A good time to dust off this classic: https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
    - cratermoon 3y ago
      Also https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pirate_Global_Warming_Graph.gif https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pirate_Global_Warmin...
    - aredox 3y ago
      Except that COVID is known to be brain invasive and to affect cognition. This looks more like refusing to ever entertain the idea that letting COVID rip was a bad idea and lockdowns and vaccinations and masks were justified because you don't like it, than actual scientific rigor.
      - Tempest1981 3y ago
        Is the cognition impact less-so if vaccinated? How much, if so?
        autoexec 3y ago
        As far as the vaccine leading to more mild infection goes the impact seems to be unclear. There's been some evidence that disease severity can have an effect on how bad the cognitive issues get. Some studies have suggested that people can end up with greater cognitive impairment if the infection got bad enough to result in hypoxemia/hypoxia, or if they were put on ventilators, or spent longer amounts of time in the ICU, but other research didn't show any link between time in the ICU and the severity of cognitive issues, and others found that people with mild infections might even be more likely to have problems than those with severe cases. As always, vaccinated or not, the best thing you can do for yourself is avoid getting infected in the first place.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    > Regarding this thread, I really want to caution on the desire to automatically assign worse car crash rates to covid-19 infections, or any other specific cause. People’s tolerance levels and general concern for other humans plummeted in the post covid times. The warning signs about acceptable behaviour in supermarkets, medical practices and restaurants proliferated. I don’t know how you measure that effect though.
    - dawnerd 3y ago
      Right just look at the number of people having to be restrained on airplanes and just outright acting out.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      I worry that people may just feel like we're doomed and it's causing some to lose it.
      - K0HAX 3y ago
        That's a self-fulfilling prophesy, and an unstable feedback loop
        autoexec 3y ago
        If it helps, I certainly not so worried that I'm going to flip out on minimum wage employees or ground an airplane in a full blown "Karen meltdown", but I do think that the pandemic has left a lot of people disillusioned, that Americans are seeing their standard of living decline, that climate change has left our future uncertain, that the stability of our democracy is in question (more than normal anyway), and that doom scrolling makes it easy to ignore anything but the worst things going on around us. It's difficult to imagine that those pressures aren't contributing to the problem anyway.
    - dangus 3y ago
      I don’t know what grocery stores or restaurants you go to but I don’t see this supposed lack of concern for others that you’re talking about. It seems the same to me.
aurareturn 3y ago
[flagged]
- snoopsnopp 3y ago
  [flagged]
stringsandchars 3y ago
> Or maybe ACT test scores have plummeted because these students have experienced 1-2 years of remote teaching, which might have been less effective than in-person school? As I mentioned in another post, you can check this theory against the pandemic control-group that kept schools open: https://www.thelocal.se/20231205/swedish-students-maths-and-reading-scores-plunge-in-pisa-world-rankings https://www.thelocal.se/20231205/swedish-students-maths-and-...
- roenxi 3y ago
  You're drawing a very simple conclusion from quite a complex article though. Some of the things it is noting: * School closures during the Covid-19 pandemic were one factor behind the unprecedented decrease across the OECD. * The general decline also began before the pandemic. * Immigration was quite probably a factor. Even without getting in to the details.

by gpt5 3y ago

Or maybe ACT test scores have plummeted because these students have experienced 1-2 years of remote teaching, which might have been less effective than in-person school?

woodruffw 3y ago

Per the comment thread, this doesn't have perfect explanatory power: drivers and ATC have also recorded statistically significant declines over the same time period. In other words: remote schooling may have had a negative effect on ACT scores, but all evidence points to it not being the only (or even primary) effect.

dangus 3y ago
Regarding this thread, I really want to caution on the desire to automatically assign worse car crash rates to covid-19 infections, or any other specific cause. Car crashes and ATC mistakes are two different sets of data. Just because they are going up or down at the same time and you can overlay some other event on top of it means absolutely nothing on its own. There are a lot more reasons that car crash rates can be getting worse. For one thing, they have been trending upwards since smartphones have become prevalent. Car crashes weren't trending down for some time before covid-19. Also, the number of screens installed on automobile dashboards is increasing every year. Still, I won't automatically assign blame to smartphones or automotive screens unless someone at least attempting to use the scientific method weighs in on the subject, because our intuitions about statistics are often really, really wrong.
- 10u152 3y ago
  Distractions might be going up in cars, but I’d guess that’s offset by automatic crash avoidance systems that’s also going up in cars.
  - orbit7 3y ago
    I had a new car for a month (mine got damaged whilst parked). Simply adjusting the aircon fan required screen navigation followed by a fidly touch screen control. The crash avoidance systen was a distracting alert that took my attention away from the road for none risks but instead increased there likelyhood to become a risk. Glad to get my own car back with physical switches and dials without all this crap, having to operate a tablet behind the wheel is a dumb idea and no different to operating a smart phone behind the wheel.
- arcanemachiner 3y ago
  > Car crashes and ATC mistakes are two different sets of data. Just because they are going up or down at the same time and you can overlay some other event on top of it means absolutely nothing on its own. A good time to dust off this classic: https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    Also https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pirate_Global_Warming_Graph.gif https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pirate_Global_Warmin...
  - aredox 3y ago
    Except that COVID is known to be brain invasive and to affect cognition. This looks more like refusing to ever entertain the idea that letting COVID rip was a bad idea and lockdowns and vaccinations and masks were justified because you don't like it, than actual scientific rigor.
    - Tempest1981 3y ago
      Is the cognition impact less-so if vaccinated? How much, if so?
      - autoexec 3y ago
        As far as the vaccine leading to more mild infection goes the impact seems to be unclear. There's been some evidence that disease severity can have an effect on how bad the cognitive issues get. Some studies have suggested that people can end up with greater cognitive impairment if the infection got bad enough to result in hypoxemia/hypoxia, or if they were put on ventilators, or spent longer amounts of time in the ICU, but other research didn't show any link between time in the ICU and the severity of cognitive issues, and others found that people with mild infections might even be more likely to have problems than those with severe cases. As always, vaccinated or not, the best thing you can do for yourself is avoid getting infected in the first place.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > Regarding this thread, I really want to caution on the desire to automatically assign worse car crash rates to covid-19 infections, or any other specific cause. People’s tolerance levels and general concern for other humans plummeted in the post covid times. The warning signs about acceptable behaviour in supermarkets, medical practices and restaurants proliferated. I don’t know how you measure that effect though.
  - dawnerd 3y ago
    Right just look at the number of people having to be restrained on airplanes and just outright acting out.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    I worry that people may just feel like we're doomed and it's causing some to lose it.
    - K0HAX 3y ago
      That's a self-fulfilling prophesy, and an unstable feedback loop
      - autoexec 3y ago
        If it helps, I certainly not so worried that I'm going to flip out on minimum wage employees or ground an airplane in a full blown "Karen meltdown", but I do think that the pandemic has left a lot of people disillusioned, that Americans are seeing their standard of living decline, that climate change has left our future uncertain, that the stability of our democracy is in question (more than normal anyway), and that doom scrolling makes it easy to ignore anything but the worst things going on around us. It's difficult to imagine that those pressures aren't contributing to the problem anyway.
  - dangus 3y ago
    I don’t know what grocery stores or restaurants you go to but I don’t see this supposed lack of concern for others that you’re talking about. It seems the same to me.

aurareturn 3y ago

[flagged]

snoopsnopp 3y ago
[flagged]

stringsandchars 3y ago

> Or maybe ACT test scores have plummeted because these students have experienced 1-2 years of remote teaching, which might have been less effective than in-person school? As I mentioned in another post, you can check this theory against the pandemic control-group that kept schools open: https://www.thelocal.se/20231205/swedish-students-maths-and-reading-scores-plunge-in-pisa-world-rankings https://www.thelocal.se/20231205/swedish-students-maths-and-...

roenxi 3y ago
You're drawing a very simple conclusion from quite a complex article though. Some of the things it is noting: * School closures during the Covid-19 pandemic were one factor behind the unprecedented decrease across the OECD. * The general decline also began before the pandemic. * Immigration was quite probably a factor. Even without getting in to the details.