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> It’s mostly downstream of COVID and specifically the lies around COVID. I agree it’s about the lies around COVID, but not in the way you meant: Over 40% of

> It’s mostly downstream of COVID and specifically the lies around COVID. I agree it’s about the lies around COVID, but not in the way you meant: Over 40% of US adults would sue the vaccine manufacturers in a class action; about 25% know someone injured. Texas is suing Pfizer for fraud. How much more “mainstream” do you want? But the distrust in those communities stems back to opioids and replication failures — and you only became aware of that sentiment during COVID. You’re saying that sentiment was generated by Bad Men (TM), but you are ignoring the real devastation some communities faced from the opioid crisis and distrust caused by flagrantly non-scientific “science”. I think it speaks to a real lack of empathy on your part: you’re dismissing whole groups as “alt” without substantively addressing their claims.

llamaimperative 3y ago
About 25% of people claim to know someone who claims to have been injured. That’s a very different claim than the one you just made. And given that this sort of sleight of hand is so common among a certain sect of society, it’s not super shocking a high number would be willing to join a class action. “Would you like free money going after big bad pharma?” What a pitch! Anyway, I’m very curious for a source on that 40% figure — do you happen to have one? No, “replication failures” are not a mainstream concern. And they certainly weren’t some lurking concern within right wing circles for years before COVID. That’s a frankly ridiculous claim. It’s not mainstream concern within the left-wing either because it’s fundamentally not a mainstream concern. As far as the opioid crisis, it’s also ahistorical to suggest this was some longtime mainstream concern among a neglected section of society (the right, of course). The actual statistics are clear: Even today, blue-leaning people overwhelmingly blame pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and the FDA. Red-leaning people blame people addicted to opioids, then pharma companies, then “the government.” Having actually grown up in one of these deep red parts of the country, the idea that right wingers were always blaming pharma companies is hilarious. Everyone knows drug addiction is the drug addict’s fault. That’s why they don’t deserve any help! First on the list of blame for both sides are illegal drug dealers. https://today.yougov.com/health/articles/42574-blame-opioid-epidemic-pharmaceutical-companies https://today.yougov.com/health/articles/42574-blame-opioid-... I think it speaks to an extremely rose-colored view of these people and the information sphere in which they exist.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  > No, “replication failures” are not a mainstream concern. And they certainly weren’t some lurking concern within right wing circles for years before COVID. They talk about this all the time — and have for years before COVID. That’s part of the anti-university rhetoric. > As far as the opioid crisis, it’s also ahistorical to suggest this was some longtime mainstream concern among a neglected section of society This has been discussed for at least a decade, in how its feeding a cycle of destruction and poverty in rural America; and increasingly stridently as it became the #1 cause of death for those under forty (eg, Millennials and Zoomers). You’re also minimizing that 36% of “right wing” people blame drug companies and 76% blame illegal drug dealers (eg, cartels). > And given that this sort of sleight of hand is so common among a certain sect of society, Eg, you calling 55% an “overwhelming majority” but denying that 36% represents a mainstream concern? > Having actually grown up in one of these deep red parts of the country, the idea that right wingers were always blaming pharma companies is hilarious. I think your bias is showing in your replies — which seem focused on an older generation and the pains of your youth. Particularly when you use your experience to dismiss other people’s experience with the same demographic. Are you the only person to grow up in the South?
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    To be clear I didn’t use the phrase “overwhelming majority” at all. Please share a source on the claim that red/rural America’s attitude toward universities is meaningfully influenced by the replication crisis. They don’t like universities because they’re responsible for brain drain (as evidenced in their economies and demographic outflows), and liberalization (as evidenced by the “anti-woke” narrative consuming a huge portion of national airtime). Please also share the same regarding the opioid epidemic and distrust of pharmaceutical companies. Hard to quantify “meaningful influence” but given that you’re jumping to this explanation as opposed to COVID, some indication they’re close to similar impacts would be reasonable. Otherwise of course it’d be a “generous” interpretation to say distrust is caused by opioids.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Too late to edit: It’s hard to find data on public perception of the replication crisis but in Germany, fewer than 25% of the public had even heard of the crisis. I don’t see why that number should be dramatically higher in the US. It does no one any favors to steelman their arguments into things they don’t believe or don’t care about. If you solve the replication crisis but leave the extreme concentration of wealth and power into universities, you will not have solved any problem that red/rural America cares about.

llamaimperative 3y ago

About 25% of people claim to know someone who claims to have been injured. That’s a very different claim than the one you just made. And given that this sort of sleight of hand is so common among a certain sect of society, it’s not super shocking a high number would be willing to join a class action. “Would you like free money going after big bad pharma?” What a pitch! Anyway, I’m very curious for a source on that 40% figure — do you happen to have one? No, “replication failures” are not a mainstream concern. And they certainly weren’t some lurking concern within right wing circles for years before COVID. That’s a frankly ridiculous claim. It’s not mainstream concern within the left-wing either because it’s fundamentally not a mainstream concern. As far as the opioid crisis, it’s also ahistorical to suggest this was some longtime mainstream concern among a neglected section of society (the right, of course). The actual statistics are clear: Even today, blue-leaning people overwhelmingly blame pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and the FDA. Red-leaning people blame people addicted to opioids, then pharma companies, then “the government.” Having actually grown up in one of these deep red parts of the country, the idea that right wingers were always blaming pharma companies is hilarious. Everyone knows drug addiction is the drug addict’s fault. That’s why they don’t deserve any help! First on the list of blame for both sides are illegal drug dealers. https://today.yougov.com/health/articles/42574-blame-opioid-epidemic-pharmaceutical-companies https://today.yougov.com/health/articles/42574-blame-opioid-... I think it speaks to an extremely rose-colored view of these people and the information sphere in which they exist.

zmgsabst 3y ago
> No, “replication failures” are not a mainstream concern. And they certainly weren’t some lurking concern within right wing circles for years before COVID. They talk about this all the time — and have for years before COVID. That’s part of the anti-university rhetoric. > As far as the opioid crisis, it’s also ahistorical to suggest this was some longtime mainstream concern among a neglected section of society This has been discussed for at least a decade, in how its feeding a cycle of destruction and poverty in rural America; and increasingly stridently as it became the #1 cause of death for those under forty (eg, Millennials and Zoomers). You’re also minimizing that 36% of “right wing” people blame drug companies and 76% blame illegal drug dealers (eg, cartels). > And given that this sort of sleight of hand is so common among a certain sect of society, Eg, you calling 55% an “overwhelming majority” but denying that 36% represents a mainstream concern? > Having actually grown up in one of these deep red parts of the country, the idea that right wingers were always blaming pharma companies is hilarious. I think your bias is showing in your replies — which seem focused on an older generation and the pains of your youth. Particularly when you use your experience to dismiss other people’s experience with the same demographic. Are you the only person to grow up in the South?
- ethanbond 3y ago
  To be clear I didn’t use the phrase “overwhelming majority” at all. Please share a source on the claim that red/rural America’s attitude toward universities is meaningfully influenced by the replication crisis. They don’t like universities because they’re responsible for brain drain (as evidenced in their economies and demographic outflows), and liberalization (as evidenced by the “anti-woke” narrative consuming a huge portion of national airtime). Please also share the same regarding the opioid epidemic and distrust of pharmaceutical companies. Hard to quantify “meaningful influence” but given that you’re jumping to this explanation as opposed to COVID, some indication they’re close to similar impacts would be reasonable. Otherwise of course it’d be a “generous” interpretation to say distrust is caused by opioids.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Too late to edit: It’s hard to find data on public perception of the replication crisis but in Germany, fewer than 25% of the public had even heard of the crisis. I don’t see why that number should be dramatically higher in the US. It does no one any favors to steelman their arguments into things they don’t believe or don’t care about. If you solve the replication crisis but leave the extreme concentration of wealth and power into universities, you will not have solved any problem that red/rural America cares about.