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- ATC is a difficult job both in terms of training required and day-to-day work - There are high health requirements to hold the job, which should be revisited

- ATC is a difficult job both in terms of training required and day-to-day work - There are high health requirements to hold the job, which should be revisited - The federally mandated retirement age is relatively low. - Pay is not attractive - Overall FAA funding is largely set by the finicky Congress, which swings between extreme austerity and moderate fiscal pragmatism - Airports can supplement federal funding, but it's difficult to get someone that cares. The right port authorities would need to be elected, then raise rates at risk of airlines pushing back... only to improve the safety of their one airport (likely still taking the full PR/trust-hit if a tragedy happens at a different airport anyway) - COVID19 led to a higher rate of people exiting the field (due to reduced labor demand + natural retirement), and few entering the field. - Hiring/pay was not managed in alignment with the return of travel demand. - These ATC articles have been circulating for a couple years now. That's probably dampened interest in these jobs.

gred 3y ago
> Pay is not attractive That's not my impression at all, based on discussions with FAA employees. From a quick online search: > ATC 2022 median pay: $132,250 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/air-traffic-controllers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/a...
- jjulius 3y ago
  Is $132,250 attractive relative to the constant high stress and everything else involved with the job?
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  Did you read the part about 10 hour days and 6 day workweeks? I wouldn't do that for $132k. Add in the fact that the FAA is about 50 years behind the times in understanding mental health, so you might lose your entire career if you are diagnosed with depression (even if it is a result of stress at work). Plus, you have to be younger than 31 to start an ATC career, and are required to retire no later than 56. So for good, not great, pay: you have to pick your career before the age of 31. Pass rigorous training. Have a plan for starting a new career if you ever have health issues, or when you turn 56, whichever comes sooner. In a vacuum, the pay is attractive. In context, it doesn't seem much more than "above average", at best, for a VERY hard job. In any case, the proof is in the pudding. If people thought the pay was generous and worth it, would there be a shortage?
  - gred 3y ago
    $132k is great pay. You get to retire at 56 with a nice federal retirement package, plus an extra supplement to top things up until you are eligible for social security (which you're not initially, since you get to retire so damn early). Is it a hard job? Certainly. But I'm sure a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful. And the union has your back, making sure you get a decent number of decently-sized breaks, overtime pay for overtime work, etc.
    - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
      > But I'm sure a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful. Ok you lost me there. Which part of retail work has you responsible for the lives of 200 people at a time?
    - kredd 3y ago
      For the responsibility they’re undertaking, I would be happy for them to get paid even more and retire at 45.
    - vlovich123 3y ago
      > a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful A significant number of retail jobs involve the risk of a mass casualty event if you make a mistake and the opportunity for such mistakes happens many times through a day, each day for years on end?
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      You neglected to respond to the important question: > In any case, the proof is in the pudding. If people thought the pay was generous and worth it, would there be a shortage? The rest of your comment is irrelevant. The “great”-ness of a price is evident by the number of sellers willing to accept it.
instagib 3y ago
Talking to FAA controllers would dampen interest in these jobs. If everywhere is understaffed, the current staff has to overcome that. Rotating shifts during the week is pretty hard on your body as well in an already stressful job. But supposedly they know their schedule a year in advance. Is overtime mandatory or voluntary? https://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-faa-controller-perspectives/ https://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-faa-controller... Looks like a mix of both. Answer your phone, it’s mandatory. I’ve talked to a few ATC people. One quit his job due to the stress. “The money was not worth it”. They were getting panic attacks and drinking to sleep as mentioned in the article. There is also a pilot shortage and it takes a long time to get to being paid well after over $100k in training fees.

gred 3y ago

> Pay is not attractive That's not my impression at all, based on discussions with FAA employees. From a quick online search: > ATC 2022 median pay: $132,250 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/air-traffic-controllers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/a...

jjulius 3y ago
Is $132,250 attractive relative to the constant high stress and everything else involved with the job?
dghlsakjg 3y ago
Did you read the part about 10 hour days and 6 day workweeks? I wouldn't do that for $132k. Add in the fact that the FAA is about 50 years behind the times in understanding mental health, so you might lose your entire career if you are diagnosed with depression (even if it is a result of stress at work). Plus, you have to be younger than 31 to start an ATC career, and are required to retire no later than 56. So for good, not great, pay: you have to pick your career before the age of 31. Pass rigorous training. Have a plan for starting a new career if you ever have health issues, or when you turn 56, whichever comes sooner. In a vacuum, the pay is attractive. In context, it doesn't seem much more than "above average", at best, for a VERY hard job. In any case, the proof is in the pudding. If people thought the pay was generous and worth it, would there be a shortage?
- gred 3y ago
  $132k is great pay. You get to retire at 56 with a nice federal retirement package, plus an extra supplement to top things up until you are eligible for social security (which you're not initially, since you get to retire so damn early). Is it a hard job? Certainly. But I'm sure a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful. And the union has your back, making sure you get a decent number of decently-sized breaks, overtime pay for overtime work, etc.
  - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
    > But I'm sure a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful. Ok you lost me there. Which part of retail work has you responsible for the lives of 200 people at a time?
  - kredd 3y ago
    For the responsibility they’re undertaking, I would be happy for them to get paid even more and retire at 45.
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    > a significant number of retail jobs are nearly as stressful A significant number of retail jobs involve the risk of a mass casualty event if you make a mistake and the opportunity for such mistakes happens many times through a day, each day for years on end?
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    You neglected to respond to the important question: > In any case, the proof is in the pudding. If people thought the pay was generous and worth it, would there be a shortage? The rest of your comment is irrelevant. The “great”-ness of a price is evident by the number of sellers willing to accept it.

instagib 3y ago

Talking to FAA controllers would dampen interest in these jobs. If everywhere is understaffed, the current staff has to overcome that. Rotating shifts during the week is pretty hard on your body as well in an already stressful job. But supposedly they know their schedule a year in advance. Is overtime mandatory or voluntary? https://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-faa-controller-perspectives/ https://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-faa-controller... Looks like a mix of both. Answer your phone, it’s mandatory. I’ve talked to a few ATC people. One quit his job due to the stress. “The money was not worth it”. They were getting panic attacks and drinking to sleep as mentioned in the article. There is also a pilot shortage and it takes a long time to get to being paid well after over $100k in training fees.